1st Bn Royal Warwickshire Regiment

[Ali Michele]

Hello there.  I’m researching my great great Uncle, James Galloway who was a Private in the 1st Bn Royal Warwickshire Regiment.  Sadly, he was killed in action on 29th April 1915 aged 32.  I am sure that he enlisted in late 1907.  I am wondering if it’s normal for a soldier of his age to remain a Private for 8 years.  I would have thought he may have been promoted in that time.  Does anyone have any ideas?  Thank you all. 

[PRC]

I can see from the Commonwealth War Graves Commission entry for him that he was service number 932 and the Army service numbers site does indeed show for the Regular Army Battalions of the Royal Warwickshire Regiment that service number 932 was issued between the 2nd March 1906, (779) and the 13th November 1907, (968).

http://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2009/09/roayl-warwickshire-regiment-regular.html

 

It was perfectly normal in peace time for most soldiers to see out their term of enlistment, (normally either 7 years in the colours and 5 in reserve, or even a full 21 years for a pension), and never rise above the rank of Private. Some would have not wanted the responsibility and some were not suited for. I'm not sure about the infantry but certainly in other branches promotion came via examination - you'd pass the exam and then wait for a vacancy. Once again, the academic nature of the promotion route would be off-putting to some.

 

Few of the Regular Army units were up to full-strength at any one time in the absence of conflict, which also limited the need for NCO's. The absence of conflict also meant little turnover - the senior NCO's and Warrant Officers would tend to be men staying in for 21 years or more so barring ill-heath \ natural causes a man joining up for the 7 years part of the enlistment could pretty much see the same NCO's in charge at the start and end of the period.

 

I think there is also something to be implied by the fact that the 1st Battalion landed in France on the 22nd August 1914 - the same date shown on the Medal Index Card for James Galloway. The Battalion would take heavy casualites in the retreat from Mons and the battles of the Marne and the Aisne, presumably creating vacancies at the NCO level. As NCO's as well as officers tended to be targetted by snipers, perhaps James was merely being wise by staying a Private.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Ali Michele]

Thank you very much indeed for explaining that to me so clearly, Peter.  It is very much appreciated.  Alison 

[clk]

Hi,

 

2 hours ago, Ali Michele said:

Sadly, he was killed in action on 29th April 1915 aged 32.

 

His CWGC record has the date of 25th April 1915. There is an element of doubt introduced to his precise fate though by his Soldiers' Effects record (link), which says that he went missing on 25.4.1915 and was 'presumed' dead. That doubt may also explain why his family contacted the Red Cross, hoping for news that he had been taken PoW.

 

Image sourced from the ICRC - link

 

In the 1911 census (Ancestry link) he seems to have been a Lance Corporal serving with the 1st Bn.

 

Regards

Chris

 

 

Edited 7 December , 2019 by clk

[Ali Michele]

Thank you very, very much Chris.  I meant the 25th.....it was an error on my part.  I was grateful for you finding out his “effects” page, I had never found it on my Ancestry search.  I was sad to see “at the request of George, Victor and Charles”. Victor was 20 when he was killed on the 3rd July 1916 at the Battle of the Somme, Charles was 15 but lied and told them he was 19. He survived and lived to 1986.. They both enlisted on the same day to the Royal West Surrey Regiment.  Another brother Alfred was a Gunner in the RGA, he survived too and went on to be my great grandpa.  George is my mystery.  I know they had a brother called George born about 1891 and I have found a George Galloway in Surrey County records joining the same Regiment with the number 1675, but that’s where I’m stumped, I can’t find hide nor hair of the old chap anywhere......do you have any ideas where I might look?  He’s the son of Amelia and James Galloway of Godstone, Surrey. 
 

Thank you again, Alison 

[PRC]

2 hours ago, Ali Michele said:

George is my mystery.  I know they had a brother called George born about 1891

 

Looking on the 1911 Census of England and Wales, George is recorded as aged 21 and born like his older brothers Alfred, (25) and ‘Bejiman”, (23) at Horne, Surrey, as were the younger siblings starting with the 15 year old Victor. Head of the household at a dwelling ‘Near Blindley Heath’, South Godstone, Surrey is his widowed 50 year old mother Amelia, who states she has been married 31 years and has had 11 children, all then still alive.She too was born Horne, Surrey.

 

On the 1901 Census George is recorded aged 11 and born Horne, Surrey. The only parent in the household is the married Amelia, although it looks as if the census taker started to write James and then crossed it through.

 

So he should be on the 1891 Census of England & Wales  and in the Civil Birth record circa 1889/90 – but on my first search isn’t there.

 

1891 Census is easy enough to understand – on the Genealogy sites I use the family surname ihas been transcribed, (understandably), as GALLAWAY and there is a 1 year old George, born Horne. As the main subscription sites seem to use the same original transcription, I suspect this is common to them all.

 

Gong back to the quarterly index of Births in England & Wales published by the General Registrars Office, I can’t see a likely birth registration for not only George GALLOWAY, but also nothing for Alfred GALLOWAY or Bejiman (Benjamin?) GALLOWAY. But I can see a Victor Frank GALLOWAY, mothers’ maiden name BORRER, whose birth was registered with the Civil Authorities in the Godstone District of Surrey in Q3 of 1896.

 

But when I look for that surname from the 1891 Census I find:-

 Alfred GALLAWAY, mothers’ maiden name BORER, recorded in the Godstone District, Q2, 1886.

Benjamin GALLAWAY, mothers’ maiden name BORRER, recorded in the Godstone District, Q2 1888.

George GALLAWAY, mothers’ maiden name BORER, recorded in the Godstone District Q1 1890.

 

Now I can understand one of those being a transcription error somewhere along the line from the preparation of a return from the local register to preparing & printing the consolidated list, but not all three.But mistakes do happen – witness the variations on the mothers’ maiden name.

 

The marriage of Amelia BORRER to James GALLOWAY was recorded in the Godstone District in Q3 1879.

 

(And I was only looking to see if he had any other forenames that he might have cropped up under.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[PRC]

2 hours ago, Ali Michele said:

I have found a George Galloway in Surrey County records joining the same Regiment with the number 1675, but that’s where I’m stumped, I can’t find hide nor hair of the old chap anywhere..

 

Just out of interest I tried searching the National Archive, (NA), catalogue to see if they have a MiC for a 1675 Royal West Surrey Regiment and if there was a possible transcription error \ use of mothers maiden name, etc, etc.

 

So just a bit surprised to find a MiC for Private 323693 George Galloway, 604th Company, Labour Corps ex 1675 Royal West Surrey. He enlisted on the 3rd September 1914 and was on the Silver War Badge roll as discharged on the 4th October 1917 as a result of wounds.

SWB badge on NA can be previewed here:-

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D2278206

 

I only have a free account on Ancestry so can't see SWB MIC's but the MiC for his 1914/15 Star, Victory Medal & British War Medal is here:-

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1262/30850_A000581-00822?pid=1797551&treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=qEf10484&_phstart=successSource

 

He landed in France on the 27th July 1915 - Long, Long Trail (LLT) page for the Royal West Surreys isn't clear on when the various Battalions entered a Theatre of War, but the three most likely are the 6th, 7th and 8th Battalions. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/queens-royal-west-surrey-regiment/

 

6th were part of 12th (Eastern) Division. LLT has that Division moving to France on 29 May – 1 June 1915

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/12th-eastern-division/

 

7th were part of 18th Eastern Division. LLT says " Embarkation for France began on 24 July and units moved to assemble near Flesselles, completing concentration there five days later. "

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/18th-eastern-division/

 

8th were part of 24th Division. LLT says " Orders were received on 19 August to move to France and the first units departed one week later. "

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/24th-division/

 

So unless he was part of a draft it looks likely that he went overseas as part of the original establishment of the 7th Battalion.

 

As he was discharged in 1917 as a result of wounds I would have thought it likely that there is a pension card \ ledger for him, which hopefully will give an address \ age that might rule him in or out as a match for your relative.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

[Ali Michele]

Peter, you have gone to an enormous amount of trouble here and I thank you for that.  I do hope you didn’t spend too much of your time on this....but, thank you again so much.  The info about all the censuses is indeed fascinating and I have also seen the spelling of Borer (the correct way) spelled many different ways, including the latest “Boorer”.  There were so many of them in that area, that it becomes mind boggling after a while.  I’ve also seen “Galloway” (correct spelling) as “GallAway”....even on a couple of documents in their own hand, so I wonder if they didn’t know how to spell it either!  

9 hours ago, PRC said:

 

And I was only looking to see if he had any other forenames that he might have cropped up under.

 

I know what you mean....I too log on, find something else interesting and then that’s it......I’m off somewhere else!

 

With ref to what you found about George Galloway, I saw on Surrey County Records that he did indeed enlist on 3 Sep 14, so you’ve  definitely got the right bloke there, looks like he transferred from RWS Rgmt to Labour Corps.  Perhaps he signed up in haste and joined the wrong regiment.  Thank you too for the LLT links, they make a fascinating read.  You’re right, I need to tie this up and see if I can find any info that tells me if he’s my great great Uncle.  I hope not really, as that would mean 5 of my great great Grandmas 7 sons went to war...2 of them being killed.
 

in the interim, I have Worldwide access to Ancestry at the moment and would be more that happy to return the favour and look for any records that might help you.

 

best regards, Alison 

[Ali Michele]

Just as I hit send on this, Peter.  A friend of mine sent me a record they’d just found ref a George Galloway, wounded from Blindley Heath in Surrey, which is where they lived.  I think that’s enough for me to confirm that it’s him 

[PRC]

1 hour ago, Ali Michele said:

Perhaps he signed up in haste and joined the wrong regiment.

 

Once he enlisted then moves between units was either because:-

  -the man was wounded, accidentally injured or ill for long enough to have been medically evacuated back as far as the coast or even the UK. As the war went on it became increasingly unlikely they would end up back with the original unit they served with.

 - they had skills that could be used elsewhere or applied for specialist arms, (Royal Engineers \ Royal Flying Corps) where there were always skill shortages.

 - the unit concerned was disbanded.

 - the individual was regarded as not up to the job

 

Note other than the specialist skills route, the individual soldier had practically no say in being moved - however much he may have "regretted" his original decision.

 

The Labour Corps didn't come into being until April 1917. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-labour-corps-of-1917-1918/

Until then the regiments had their own Labour Battalions and Labour Companies. These were usually made up of men fit enough to serve, but not fit for front line service. That may have been the state they were in when being conscripted, (as a result of the ever lowering standards as the war went on), or because of wounds \ accidental injury \ illness incurred while they were serving. Looks like George was in the latter category.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Ali Michele]

Brilliant Peter, thank you for that explanation.  I have learned such a lot in our discussions.  

[clk]

Hi Alison,

 

WRT Victor,

 

If you haven't already seen them...

 

FMP has a transcription of the 'Queen's Royal West Surrey Regiment Rough Register Of Recruits 1914-1917' which says that he joined up on  25.8.1914 - link

 

His medal rolls (Ancestry link) indicate that he arrived in theatre on 1.6.1915 and only served overseas with the 6th Bn (war diary here, or here). The 37 Infantry Brigade HQ diary, and 12 Division HQ (General Staff) diary will add more context to the Bn diary. The TNA search page is here, and the Ancestry page here.

 

His Soldiers' Effects record is here. It intimates that he left a will (possibly just a few words) in favour of his mother. It is available from here.

 

His CWGC records indicate that he was originally buried at map reference 57d.X.7.b. That is probably much closer to where he originally fell, rather than his current resting place. Unfortunately t he map reference isn't complete so it only enables the sub square from where he was 'concentrated' (in green below) to be identified, rather than a more specific location within that sub square.

 

Base image sourced from the National Library of Scotland

 

This link should open up on the map (from August 1916) with square X.7 in the centre. Using the transparency slider allows a blended aerial view with the modern landscape.

 

It looks like British War Graves (link) may be able to send you a digital image of his grave (free of charge).

 

Regards

Chris

 

 

 

 

[Ali Michele]

Thank you very much for this information, Chris.  Unfortunately it won’t let me see the FMP link as my membership has lapsed, but it’s ok.  Everything else I’ve looked at, very interesting indeed.  I have registered with the probate.service.gov.uk and ordered a copy of his will, thank you for making me aware of this......I’m eager to see it.........I wonder whether it’s typed or in his own hand.  It will be very poignant to see his writing.  I feel as I’ve researched all these brothers that I’ve really got to know them.

 

Thank you for providing me with the map.  I intend to go over there next Spring as I want to do a proper battlefield tour and I will visit that square where Victor fell and also his grave at Ovillers.  I have a friend who lives right by the Somme area and he’s visited Victors grave on my behalf and sent me photos, but thank you for the War Graves Link.  I will also be visiting my great grandad who was killed in April 1915 near Ploegsteert Wood. Sadly, he was never found and his name is on the memorial there.  
 

Thank you again, Chris.  I have been truly overwhelmed by your and Peter’s help.  Alison 

[Keith_history_buff]

If you are researching men of the Royal Warwickshire Regiment, who enlisted under Regular terms of service, in the period 1890 to 1908, there are some non-digitised records at Kew that are likely to be of interest.

The description books for the regiment, covering the aforementioned time period, have survived. Below are some details that I copied out for one soldier.

Quote

Attestation date: 26 Aug 1904
Place of Attestation:Warwick
Service No: 181
First name: W T
Last name: Russell
Attestation age years: 21
Attestation age months: 9
Height: 5' 5”
Chest: 34 / 36 ½
Weight: 130lbs
Where born: Warwickshire

The reference for this is WO 67/29

There are similar description books for the South Wales Borderers, covering the time periods 1881-1893 and 1893-1897. (Their books also document complexion, eyes, hair, religion, trade.)

If may be more effective to hire a researcher to copy the page, or to pay the staff at Kew to perform this task.



 

[Ali Michele]

Thank you very much, Keith 

[Keith_history_buff]

Owing to the time periods covered, these records are more pertinent to regulars who served in the Boer War rather than the First World War. Saying that, though, if you were looking at the men of the RWR on the 1911 census, it should be possible to find many of them in the description book. It's very useful where you have men of the same name in the regiment, in terms of distinguishing who is who.