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Marie Baggaley

Trying to find the man behind the medals. W Ollerenshaw, Derbyshire

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Marie Baggaley

We have found these medals in my late grandfather's possessions but the name means absolutely nothing to the family. 

We have managed to find  his medal cards but can't find anything about William Ollerenshaw himself where he came from or where he went after the war (we know he survived) or why he won the Meritorious Service medal in 1915. His service numbers were 1779 in the Notts Derbyshire regiment and 24232 in the 139 machine gun company with the Derbyshire Territorials 

20181106_224328.jpg

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Kimberley John Lindsay

Dear Marie,

The correct sequence of the medals should be: 1914-15 Star; British War Medal 1914-18 (but its ribbon is that now on the Victory), Victory Medal (but its ribbon is that now on the British War Medal), Meritorious Service Medal (MSM).

Kindest regards,

Kim.

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kenf48

Welcome to the forum, can I suggest, if you have not already done so you have a look at the Long Long Trail, link top left for tips on researching a soldier.

 

He went to France with the main body of the 1/6th Sherwood Foresters, on 28th February 1915.

 

He was transferred to the MGC on 16 September 1916, though it’s likely he was attached to 139 Company from its formation in February 1916.

 

The 1/6th HQ was at Chesterfield, with Drill Stations around the County. including Buxton (C Company)  There are quite few candidates in the area but I'd consider William Ollerenshaw, in the 1911 Census a postman born 1886 in Buxton, living in Fairfield as a boarder and married to Mary, by 1939 he was a post office inspector living in Buxton.  We need more work to confirm or eliminate him.  Do you know if the Absent Voter List for Buxton survives?

 

 

Ken

 

 

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corisande

 

 

The 1/6th men that transferred to the 139th Brigade Machine Gun Company were as follows:-

In late 1915 the Battalion Machine Gun Section comprised a Lieutenant, Sergeant, Corporal, 2 drivers, batman and 12 Privates that were trained in the maintenance, transport, loading and firing of the Vickers heavy machine gun. These men made up two six-man gun teams.

  • 1265 Sergt. Dudley Spicer (24226)
  • 811 Pte. George Handbury (24227)
  • 3334 Pte.  John H Watson (24228)
  • 2068 Pte. Alfred Allen (24229)
  • 2707 Pte. George EH Hurt (24230)
  • 1701 Pte. Harry Ellison (24231)
  • 1779 Pte. William Ollerenshaw (24232)
  • 1784 Pte. Frank Swann (24233)
  • 1800 Pte. William E Hughes (24234)
  • 1801 Pte. Edgar Porter (24235)
  • 1841 Pte. George F Johnson (24236)
  • 1846 Pte. James White (24237)
  • 2223 Pte. James Dudley (24238)
  • 3259 Pte. George Henry Fearn (24239)
  • 3340 Cpl. George Bagshaw (24240)
  • 3652 Pte. Arthur Marshall (24241)
  • 1656 Pte. Hedley Bennett (24242)
  •  
  • https://derbyshireterritorials.wordpress.com/2015/02/
 

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corisande

His MSM is gazetted 17 Jun 1918 - click

 

There are a lot of MSM on the list - this is the front page of the list - click

 

His entry says he joined at Kettleshulme

Edited by corisande

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corisande

Can I ask a few questions in order to progress

 

1. How do you know William Ollerenshaw  survived WW1. Is it a lack of a CWGC grave, or do you have other reasons

2. Did you grandfather serve in WW1 and if so what are those details

3. Is it possible that you grandfather and William Ollerenshaw  are one and the same man

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Marie Baggaley
7 minutes ago, corisande said:

Can I ask a few questions in order to progress

 

1. How do you know William Ollerenshaw  survived WW1. Is it a lack of a CWGC grave, or do you have other reasons

2. Did you grandfather serve in WW1 and if so what are those details

3. Is it possible that you grandfather and William Ollerenshaw  are one and the same man

Thank you for your assistance.  We have contacted the war office and they confirmed it and it says disembodied on his medal card (took some translating that did!)

My grandfather was not born until after the war and as far as we know my great-grandfather didn't serve his name was Shipley.

The area looking most promising for William is Buxton, Hartington etc  all relatively small areas but there seems to be no trail to his civilian whereabouts 

FB_IMG_1574117775050.jpg

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Marie Baggaley
10 minutes ago, kenf48 said:

The London Gazette entry for the MSM dated 17 June 1918

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30750/supplement/7160

gives his home town as Kettleshulme

 

 

Ken

Yeah we found that but couldn't match that up outside this mention. Another mention elsewhere gives him as a carter from Hartington which are pretty far apart. We know he joined the Whaley Bridge Territorials of the Notts Derbyshire regiment 

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corisande
2 minutes ago, Marie Baggaley said:

The area looking most promising for William is Buxton, Hartington etc  all relatively small areas but there seems to be no trail to his civilian whereabouts 

 

Is that because that is the area your grandfather and his father lived?

 

If you grandfather was not born until after the war, he possibility is that he got the medals from his father (or a neighbour or a friend)

 

Can you give us your great grandfather's full name and date of birth if you have them and where he lived.

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Marie Baggaley
8 hours ago, kenf48 said:

Welcome to the forum, can I suggest, if you have not already done so you have a look at the Long Long Trail, link top left for tips on researching a soldier.

 

He went to France with the main body of the 1/6th Sherwood Foresters, on 28th February 1915.

 

He was transferred to the MGC on 16 September 1916, though it’s likely he was attached to 139 Company from its formation in February 1916.

 

The 1/6th HQ was at Chesterfield, with Drill Stations around the County. including Buxton (C Company)  There are quite few candidates in the area but I'd consider William Ollerenshaw, in the 1911 Census a postman born 1886 in Buxton, living in Fairfield as a boarder and married to Mary, by 1939 he was a post office inspector living in Buxton.  We need more work to confirm or eliminate him.  Do you know if the Absent Voter List for Buxton survives?

 

 

Ken

 

 

The entry in the 1911 census is interesting as I hadn't found this gentleman (but I did get rather Ollerenshaw 'd out after a while) I am hoping to take a trip to Buxton to see if there is a mention of his MSM medal in the press as he earned it in the lowest rank possible so thought it might have been worthy of a mention so I will investigate the absent voter list existence or not at the same time .

Thank you for this. I was hoping fresh eyes would aid progress and it seems I was right

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Marie Baggaley
Just now, corisande said:

 

Is that because that is the area your grandfather and his father lived?

 

If you grandfather was not born until after the war, he possibility is that he got the medals from his father (or a neighbour or a friend)

 

Can you give us your great grandfather's full name and date of birth if you have them and where he lived.

Yes my grandfather's family are all Buxton Hartington area. But that is the one side of the family that never really said much about relatives (isn't it always the way!) I have been trying to build up the family tree so let me look that information out for you 

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kenf48

There are in the records half a dozen or so men from Kettleshulme who served in the 1/6th in the online records, so it seems reasonable to assume the LG entry is correct, which makes the man I found less likely.

 

Ken

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Marie Baggaley
4 minutes ago, corisande said:

 

Is that because that is the area your grandfather and his father lived?

 

If you grandfather was not born until after the war, he possibility is that he got the medals from his father (or a neighbour or a friend)

 

Can you give us your great grandfather's full name and date of birth if you have them and where he lived.

My great-grandfather- George Shipley 22.09.1878 Warslow Staffordshire 

1 minute ago, kenf48 said:

There are in the records half a dozen or so men from Kettleshulme who served in the 1/6th in the online records, so it seems reasonable to assume the LG entry is correct, which makes the man I found less likely.

 

Ken

Thank you anyway this is the frustration we have had too. Too common a surname in this neck of the woods sadly

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corisande
13 minutes ago, Marie Baggaley said:

My great-grandfather- George Shipley 22.09.1878 Warslow Staffordshire 

 

Did he die 27 Oct 1923,

if so he did serve in WW1 as 6082 in Notts & Derby (yes born 1878)

 

His pension card is a bit difficult to read, but on checking I see Sheen, Staffs is about 2 km from Warslow

 

shipley.jpg.fde0de9355e7799ca1ae3c29d1f71846.jpg

Edited by corisande

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Marie Baggaley
6 minutes ago, corisande said:

 

Did he die 27 Oct 1923,

if so he did serve in WW1 as 6082 in Notts & Derby (yes born 1878)

That's something I will have to look into as I was always under the impression nobody in our family served. I will double check the date of death when I get home but it might explain why we don't know much about him as my grandfather was only 4 when this gentleman died if he is his father

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The Inspector

Hi

PRC show his number as 60 7 2 but also "Loth & Derby" !. d.27.10.1923...looking

Regards Barry

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corisande

If that is your great grandfather, then at least it proves that he could not have been William Ollerenshaw, as George Shipley was discharged Oct 1916

 

FreeBMD gives only 1 George Shipley born there in 1878, so I suspect strong that is your great-grandfather

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Marie Baggaley
13 minutes ago, corisande said:

 

Did he die 27 Oct 1923,

if so he did serve in WW1 as 6082 in Notts & Derby (yes born 1878)

 

His pension card is a bit difficult to read, but on checking I see Sheen, Staffs is about 2 km from Warslow

 

shipley.jpg.fde0de9355e7799ca1ae3c29d1f71846.jpg

Well coming from Sheen if he isn't my great-grandfather he is definitely related as they all seem to be related there lol. I hadn't found this so this brilliant thank you

1 minute ago, corisande said:

If that is your great grandfather, then at least it proves that he could not have been William Ollerenshaw, as George Shipley was discharged Oct 1916

 

FreeBMD gives only 1 George Shipley born there in 1878, so I suspect strong that is your great-grandfather

Then they may have been army brothers and good friends and he may have given my grandfather the medals hmmm the plot thickens

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Marie Baggaley
3 minutes ago, The Inspector said:

Hi

PRC show his number as 60 7 2 but also "Loth & Derby" !. d.27.10.1923...looking

Regards Barry

Thank you. I obviously just don't have the knack of historical  research just yet you guys are brill

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The Inspector

Hi

Born 22 Sept 1878 married Sarah Ellen Barker 3rd qtr, 1915, Leek, Staffs.6b, 697 ? If so his marr. cert. may show his service number...looking..also birth cert. for his son Ralph born 22 Jan, 1916 6b, 514, Leek, Staffs.

Regards Barry

He has 2 PRC  records No 6082. address on 4.10.16 was Rabbit Pit Cottages, Burton on Trent, Staffs. Disability. Other card says residence, Tutbury, Derbys.........

Edited by The Inspector

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sadbrewer
18 minutes ago, The Inspector said:

Hi

Was he born 22 Sept 1878 married Sarah Ellen Barker 3rd qtr, 1915, Leek, Staffs.6b, 697 ?

Regards Barry

Just to follow that up, they seem to have had four children...Ralph...1916, Lizzie A...1918, and possibly twins John W and Lizzie in 1920.

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corisande

So George Shipley was born 1878, married 1915 and died 1923 in Leek Registration District which covers Sheen and Warslow (assuming it was the same man all the way through)

 

As you say it would explain why your grandfather did not know much about his father

 

But I cannot tie a William Ollerenshaw to that registration district. But there is a second pension card that show a variety of addresses after his discharge, until his final address at Sheen.

 

Medals were not actually given out until after the war. No doubt someone can give us the earliest date that they could have got to a recipient. Though that does not necessarily show where Ollernshaw came from - they could have been neighbours, or your grandfather may have been Ollerenshaw next of kin and got the medals that way (which would mean that Ollerenshaw would have to have died by then, and as far as we know he survived)

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Dai Bach y Sowldiwr
9 hours ago, kenf48 said:

William Ollerenshaw, in the 1911 Census a postman born 1886 in Buxton, living in Fairfield as a boarder and married to Mary, by 1939 he was a post office inspector living in Buxton

Can't for the life of me find William Ollerenshaw in the 1939 Register on Ancestry.

Can anyone post a link to him please?

That will give his exact date of birth, from which we could find a death date on FreeBMD.

 

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The Inspector

Hi

10 minutes ago, sadbrewer said:

Just to follow that up, they seem to have had four children...Ralph...1916, Lizzie A...1918, and possibly twins John W and Lizzie in 1920.

They had six children, Ralph 1916, Lizzie Ann 1917, Phyllis and John William 1919, twins and 2 others...looking for William Ollerenshaw.....

Regards Barry

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