SS Windsor Hall - torpedoed and Capt taken prisoner

[davidbohl]

I found this story in the Liverpool Echo 20th April 1920 from the BNA, I can't find much more about the fate of Capt Dan Owen apart from a few "In Memoriam" entries in the papers in subsequent years.

 

Do we actually know what happened to Capt Owen ?, a wrecksite website has named U66 as the culprit.

Thanks

Dave

 

 

[Michael Lowrey]

Another source with the same basic information here: https://uboat.net/wwi/ships_hit/6564.html

 

The German submarine involved was UB 66 —not U 66 — under the command of Kplt. Fritz Wernicke. From the book I'm writing on WWI U-boat losses:

 

Quote

 

UB 66 departed Cattaro on December 27, 1917 to operate in the Eastern Mediterranean. She was to end her patrol at Constantinople and join the U-boat half flotilla based there.

 

On January 10, UB 66 sailed into Beirut to refuel, leaving again that night. Wernicke reported that he opted to cut short his time off Port Said as there was no traffic there. He said that he was going to operate off Alexandria instead, and would arrive there on about the 15th as he was going via Cyprus, Rhodes, and Kasos.

 

UB 66 was sighted off Famagusta, Crete on the 12th. Then on January 17, the British steamer Windsor Hall (3,693 grt, built 1910) was torpedoed and sunk 45 miles northwest of Alexandria. Only UB 66 could have been responsible for this attack. There was no further contact with UB 66.

 

 

The British sinking attribution for UB 66 was that she was depth charged by the sloop HMS Campanula off Malta on January 18. This is incorrect though, as the attack was against U 33 and as UB 66 wasn't assigned to operate off Malta and couldn't have gotten there in time in any case.

 

UB 66 is a missing submarine and likely was lost through operational/accidental cause.

[helpjpl]

 

He is Master Mariner Daniel/Dan Owen born 12 March 1873 at New Quay in Cardigan (Master & Mates Certificates 1850-1927).

 

He appears on the 1901 Wales Census as Master of the vessel SS Llanover - at Barry Dock on 31 March 1901.

 

A member of the Freemasons (Barry Lodge).

 

National Probate Calendar 1920:

 

He is not listed with the crew of the SS Windsor Hall at Tower Hill and I haven't found him on CWGC:

http://www.benjidog.co.uk/Tower Hill/WW1 Windermere to Wreathier.html

 

Loss of the SS Windsor Hall - National Archives:

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4115252

 

JP

 

[helpjpl]

Commemorated New Quay War Memorial:

https://www.wwwmp.co.uk/ceredigion-memorials/new-quay-war-memorial/

 

JP

 

[Michael Lowrey]

The official loss publication British Vessels Lost at Sea 1914-1918 also lists the master of Windsor Wall as being taken prisoner. Came across a list of WWI merchant marine prisoners of war, which includes Owen's name, but that could be based upon British, not German, records.

 

Sounds very much like a possible non-commemoration/In From The Cold type case.

[KizmeRD]

Is the supposition now that he suffered the same fate as the crew of UB 66?

Michael

[Michael Lowrey]

5 minutes ago, KizmeRD said:

Is the supposition now that he suffered the same fate as the crew of UB 66?

Michael

 

Correct. It was not unusual for U-boats in the Mediterranean and from the High Seas Fleet to take the master of ships (and sometimes a few others) they sank as prisoners. There are a few other cases in which captured British (or in one case a neutral Spanish) sailors on board U-boats were killed when the U-boat was sunk.

[Guest]

Michael,

 

Do you have the first name of this officer lost on UB 66?

 

Fortmüller E.    ObLtzS Marine    UB 66 Constantinople Flotilla 1917-18  U boat    1917-18     (born at KIA 18-1-18) Missing in the Eastern Mediterreanean 30 dead (all hands lost)
 

The Verlustlisten 1. Weltkrieg has no one listed under that name, to check his first name or any details on him?

 

Cheers

S.B

[Michael Lowrey]

Ernst-August Fortmüller, Crew 1912, born December 3, 1892, promoted to Oberleutnant zur See on December 25, 1917 with seniority of T. UB 66 was his first active service on a U-boat. Medals looks to be just the EKII (per the 1918 Rangliste.)

[Guest]

Michael,

 

Mate thank you, I tried all over but no first name for him?

 

Do you have any thing on the action shown in the Der Sanitätsdienst der U-Boot-Waffe der Kaiserlichen Marine

 

S.M. U 139

Einsatz 11.9.1918-13.11.1918

Kdt KL Lothar von Arnauld de la Periere

SchA MarOAss Dr. Hans Hölzel

größtes im 1. WK gebautes U-Boot, Besatzung 6 Offz 56 Mann + PrisenKdo 1 Offz 20 Mann, 5 Versenkungen, Nordatlantik

Nach einem längeren Artilleriegefecht von S.M. U 139 mit dem portugiesischen Minenleger „Augusto de Castillo ey Elita“ am 14.10.1918 im Atlantik war die zum Teil schwerverletzte Besatzung in die Boote gegangen. Der Schiffsarzt, MarOAss Dr. Hölzel, behandelte sieben verwundete Portugiesen an Oberdeck des U-Bootes. Nach der medizinischen Versorgung wurden die Schiffbrüchigen, mit Leckabdichtungsmaterial und Lebensmitteln versehen, entlassen und erreichten nach kurzer Zeit einen rettenden Hafen.³³ /³⁴

Abbildung in dieser Leseprobe nicht enthalten

S.M. U 139

Abbildung in dieser Leseprobe nicht enthalten

Gefechtsdienst S.M. U 139 Arnauld de la Perriere³⁵

 

Since the U 139 was not sunk, and the Portugeuse Naval Trawler was, then the men mentioned being fixed must be them

 

It looks like these U Kreuzer's all appear to have Doctors on them.

 

Hölzel Hans    ObLtzS Dr Marine    Oberassistenzärzte Flottillenarzt 2. U Boat Flottille Mittelmeer Cattaro 7-17 to 5-18 to MO U 139 U-Kreuzer Flotilla 9-18 to 11-18 U Boat
 

Arnauld de la Periere Lothar von    Kapt-Lt Marine    U Boat School Crew 4/03 to Commander U 35 Pola Flotilla 11-15 to 3-18 to U 139 U-Kreuzer Flotilla 5-18 to 11-18 U boat     1915-18    (1896 in Posen DoA 24-2-41) Air crash at Paris Le Bourget airport - Pour le Mérite 193 ships sunk with a total of 455,869 GRT including 4 warships (French AMC La Provence & Gallia and French Sloop Rigel and British Sloop HMS Primula) sunk with a total of 31,213 tons awarded House Order of Hohenzollern and EK II & EK I and Hanseatic Cross and Ottoman Silver Liakat Medal with Swords and War Medal From 1932 till 1938 he was an instructor at the Turkish Naval Academy later WWII Kon-Adm a D. Naval Commander in Belgium-Netherlands 1940 to Vizeadmiral z.V killed on his way to taking over command as Admiral Südost
 

 

S.B

[Guest]

Michael,

 

The site also gives this battle but no details on the ship that engaged?

 

Im Frühjahr 1918 kam es im Atlantik zu einem Artilleriegefecht zwischen U 157 (KL Valentiner) und einem nicht zu ermittelnden Gegner. Hierbei wurden 10 Besatzungsangehörige unterschiedlich schwer verwundet. Bei einem Matraosen entschloß sich der Schiffsarzt, MarAss Dr. Haedenkamp, zur Amputation des rechten Arms, „wobei ihm ein Kapitänleutnant assistierte, ein Leutnant die Narkose unter seiner Aufsicht und Anleitung machte und zwei Matrosen sonstige Hilfe leisteten. Der Eingriff gestaltete sich bei der Enge des Raumes, den Bewegungen des Schiffes, der herrschenden Temperatur und der Luftbeschaffenheit sehr schwierig, insbesondere stieß die Innehaltung strengster Asepsis auf große Schwierigkeiten. Instrumente, Tücher usw. mußten zum größten Teil in der Kombüse, die ganz achtern gelegen war, ausgekocht werden. Zu Beginn des Eingriffs wurde der Kurs so geändert, daß das Boot möglichst ruhig lag. Ein Drägerscher Tauchretter wurde bereitgelegt, um gegebenenfalls Sauerstoff zuführen zu können. Während des Eingriffs traten verschiedene Zwischenfälle ein. Der Narkotiseur wurde vom Übelsein befallen und mußte zeitweilig ausscheiden. Gegen Ende der Operation kam es bei dem Patienten zum Atemstillstand. Nach Anwendung des Tauchretters bei gleichzeitiger künstlicher Atmung schwanden die bedrohlichen Anzeichen bald. Der Operierte wurde in der Kammer des I. WO gelagert. Der Heilverlauf war in der Folgezeit an Bord trotz der ungünstigen Umstände vollständig normal“.⁴⁶

 

^S.B

[Guest MOL]

Captain Daniel Hall was my great-grandfather. His daughter Gwenda was my paternal grandmother. Gwenda never spoke of him; she was 12 when he went missing from SS Windsor Hall. Her house in New Quay was full of paintings of vessels that her father captained - he was one of a large breed of Cardiganshire men who went to sea, often out of Cardiff and Newport. The painting of SS Windsor Hall hangs above my desk today. Dan's death was a terrible blow to his family: his widow Sarah never remarried, and lived for the rest of her life in Talywerydd, their house on the edge of New Quay. She raised their four children alone; one child also died at the age of 8.   Gwenda lived in Aberystwyth and then New Quay.  I have spent the last five years trying to get CWGC to place Dan's name with his 12 shipmates who died in the sinking and are on the Windsor Hall plaque at Tower Hill - one of those names is the ship's boy, who died aged 14. CWGC demand proof that Daniel died in the war - I have never succeeded in locating his death certificate. I have evidence of the search for him after the war, copies of letters written by the Board of Trade to German and Austrian war ministries. Daniel is remembered on the plaque listing the village's war dead on the Memorial Hall; he is also on the headstone alongside his wife on the family plot in the graveyard of the Wern Chapel, Gilfachreda, New Quay. Daniel and his crew were taking barley from Karachi to Marseilles, feed for the horses of the Western Front. It is a great shame that he is not alongside his shipmates at Tower Hill, a memorial I pass every day on my way from Wapping to my office in the City.

[helpjpl]

Daniel/Dan Owen married Annie James in 1899.  Their 4 children are:

1.  Evan Gerald David Owen

2.  Mary Enid Myfanwy Owen

3.  Thomas Ifor James Owen

4.  Sarah Gwendoline Annie Owen

 

Annie Owen, nee James, died in 1934. 

England & Wales National Probate Calendar 1935 (courtesy of ancestry):

 

JP

[Guest MOL]

16 hours ago, helpjpl said:

Daniel/Dan Owen married Annie James in 1899.  Their 4 children are:

1.  Evan Gerald David Owen

2.  Mary Enid Myfanwy Owen

3.  Thomas Ifor James Owen

4.  Sarah Gwendoline Annie Owen

 

Annie Owen, nee James, died in 1934. 

England & Wales National Probate Calendar 1935 (courtesy of ancestry):

 

JP

 

17 hours ago, helpjpl said:

Daniel/Dan Owen married Annie James in 1899.  Their 4 children are:

1.  Evan Gerald David Owen

2.  Mary Enid Myfanwy Owen

3.  Thomas Ifor James Owen

4.  Sarah Gwendoline Annie Owen

 

Annie Owen, nee James, died in 1934. 

England & Wales National Probate Calendar 1935 (courtesy of ancestry):

 

JP

Annie indeed. Sarah Gwendoline (Gwenda) was my grandmother. Ifor, the fifth child, died in infancy.  

 

If anybody has suggestions how I could find Daniel's death certificate, I would be very grateful. I assume that the vast numbers of missing of the first war caused an administrative nightmare, as relatives sought death certificates in order to obtain probate and move on with their lives. I can find no trace with the GRO. I am about to try the British Library, when it reopens. 

[helpjpl]

On 22/11/2020 at 10:38, MOL said:

I assume that the vast numbers of missing of the first war caused an administrative nightmare, as relatives sought death certificates in order to obtain probate and move on with their lives. 

 

Probate granted 05 July 1920. Did you get a copy of the will?

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/ShoppingBasket

 

JP

 

[Guest]

On 21/11/2020 at 11:46, MOL said:

Captain Daniel Hall was my great-grandfather. His daughter Gwenda was my paternal grandmother. Gwenda never spoke of him; she was 12 when he went missing from SS Windsor Hall. Her house in New Quay was full of paintings of vessels that her father captained - he was one of a large breed of Cardiganshire men who went to sea, often out of Cardiff and Newport. The painting of SS Windsor Hall hangs above my desk today. Dan's death was a terrible blow to his family: his widow Sarah never remarried, and lived for the rest of her life in Talywerydd, their house on the edge of New Quay. She raised their four children alone; one child also died at the age of 8.   Gwenda lived in Aberystwyth and then New Quay.  I have spent the last five years trying to get CWGC to place Dan's name with his 12 shipmates who died in the sinking and are on the Windsor Hall plaque at Tower Hill - one of those names is the ship's boy, who died aged 14. CWGC demand proof that Daniel died in the war - I have never succeeded in locating his death certificate. I have evidence of the search for him after the war, copies of letters written by the Board of Trade to German and Austrian war ministries. Daniel is remembered on the plaque listing the village's war dead on the Memorial Hall; he is also on the headstone alongside his wife on the family plot in the graveyard of the Wern Chapel, Gilfachreda, New Quay. Daniel and his crew were taking barley from Karachi to Marseilles, feed for the horses of the Western Front. It is a great shame that he is not alongside his shipmates at Tower Hill, a memorial I pass every day on my way from Wapping to my office in the City.

Hi Mol,

I have added Dan Owen's grave to FindaGrave. https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/229749773/dan-owen

I am puzzled by Euna Owen 1914 - 1991 who married Neville Lucas Elliott. Their slab is included on the grave.  I had assumed she was the child of Dan & Annie, do you have any information please?

[helpjpl]

2 hours ago, Graver said:

I am puzzled by Euna Owen 1914 - 1991 who married Neville Lucas Elliott. Their slab is included on the grave.  I had assumed she was the child of Dan & Annie, do you have any information please?

She may be Catherine Margaret E Owen but you'd need a copy of her birth or marriage certificate to be sure:

Birth:

Marriage:

Death:

 

Edit:

Queen Mary Passenger List - Arrival Southampton 06 October 1959:

JP

Edited 23 July , 2021 by helpjpl
Queen Mary Passenger List

[Guest]

On 23/07/2021 at 14:55, helpjpl said:

Edit:

Queen Mary Passenger List - Arrival Southampton 06 October 1959:

JP

Where was the Queen Mary sailing from/to please?