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allymac

Samuel and William John Crawford.RIFusiliers

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allymac

I am looking for info on 2 Belfast brothers in the Great War.Samuel Crawford died on 2/11/1920 in the Abbey sanitorium from war wounds,aged 21.He is buried in the Military section in Belfast City Cemetery.His army number is given as 41273 and his regiment is the Royal Irish Fusiliers.His brother William John is remembered on the screen wall in the same cemetery.His number is given as 16482 and he was in the Machine Gun Corps[infantry]His age is given as 26 and his date of death as 11/5/1920.The brothers were married to 2 sisters named Margaret and Isabella Stratton and their address was 14 Downing Street in the Shankill Road area of Belfast.Both brothers may have originally enlisted in the Royal Irish Rifles as that was the Regiment most locals joined.Since William John is remembered on the screen wall I take it his body was never recovered so how was his death recorded as 11/5/1920.Samuels wife never remarried and lived in the same house until her death in 1978 when she was buried with Samuel.Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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archangel9

Hi,

"Those of the 1914-1918 war whose graves are not marked by headstones are named on a Screen Wall memorial in Plot H."

Would indicate that William John Crawford is buried in the cemetery but in an unmarked grave.

John

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allymac

Samuel is buried in H3 706 and William John is on the screen wall H3 695.I am having trouble tracing info about both of them.

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ander11

Hello Allymac

here is Samuel Crawford details from CWGC.

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=4014532

and WJ Crawford details from CWGC

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=660739

Regards

Ian

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corisande

I would suspect that there is more to this. Both brothers died in 1920, where did they die?

Also MIC for WJ shows he was in RIF with no 11511 before transferring to MGC

MIC shows Samuel was 27870 in R Irish Fusiliers before transfer to RIR

So both joined RIF but at very different times.

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allymac

Samuel died in the Abbey sanatorium in Whiteabbey,just outside Belfast.His headstone shows he was in the Royal Irish Fusiliers as a private,number 41273.I don't know where William died,only that he is remembered on the screen wall in Belfast City Cemetery and is not interred in any of our family graves.There are no members of my family still alive who can remember so far back unfortunately.It's really frustrating trying to find the proper information so thanks to all who have helped me out.

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ulsterlad2

Hi Allymac

I've photos of Samuel's gravestone and William's inscription on the screen wall if you need them. Though, tbh, Samuel's really does need to be re-engraved.

Things that may be of interest:

According to the BCC records, Samuel actually died on 30th October and was buried on 3rd November

William died at the Whiteabbey Sanatorium and his body was interned in the cemetery.

Reading the screen wall. It can be a bit confusing. There's basically 3 distinct burial areas for screen wall men: H, H3 & Elsewhere.

If the reference is Screen Wall H. 123 it means burial in the land at the screen wall.

If the reference is Screen Wall H3. 123 it means burial in the Roll of Honour ground. (I've marked the area designated Roll of Honour Ground showing where William is buried on this map)

If the reference is Screen wall F. 123 it means burial in plot F but there's no headstone there.

post-33142-0-90058400-1303922825.jpg

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allymac

Brilliant Ulsterlad I'll have to try and get up to the City Cemetery as I haven't been there since 1978.Your info is a real boost .Thanks very much.

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allymac

I've been in touch with the CWGC about the condition of Samuels headstone and they told me that headstones were re-engraved when need be.They also said that those beyond repair would be replaced.They must have great difficulty keeping tabs on all the graves so they will get round to it eventually I'm sure.Thanks for letting me know Ulsterlad.

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allymac

I've just found out William John and Samuel are both buried close to one another in the City Cemetery Military section',plot H3.Lots of coincidences here as they were married to 2 sisters,both died in the same sanitorium and both died in 1920 with the same home address.

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W.J.Caughey

Hi allymac, do you live near Belfast, if so have you checked the libary newspaper achives, if not i will go down in next couple of days to see if there is anything.

Kind regards Walter.

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allymac

Thanks very much Walter.I live in North Belfast but I'm afraid I'm not too hot on the computer and am kind of feeling my way in any research I do.I've quite a few relatives to look up so I'll just have to persevere and learn a bit more.

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robert mckee

Hi allymac, do you live near Belfast, if so have you checked the libary newspaper achives, if not i will go down in next couple of days to see if there is anything.

Kind regards Walter.

hi there walter....my name is Robert Mckee, .im trying to find out some more about my great uncle William Wales 8359 2nd batt R.I,R, DOW 24/11 /17, he was burried at grevillers cem which makes me think he was injured in the 36th ulsters attack at moevers, i am trying to find out if that is the case also what his wounds were and what clearing station he would have been treated in, would be very greatful if you could come up with any info on him, wouldnt have a clue how to browse newspaper archives, im going to the somme to visit his grave in Sept. im not sure how this thing works, my forum title is F.G.A.U

Kind regards

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W.J.Caughey

Hi allymac, Robert, will have a good look for you's both, keep checking this post.

Walter.

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allymac

Looking info on these two brothers who died in 1920 in Belfast.They started off in the RIFand Samuel was sent to serve with the RIRegiment and William John ended up in the MGC.I think they were both wounded prior to their moves.Both brothers died while still in their 20's and are buried in the Military section of Belfast City Cemetery.

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MaxD

You have from a military records standpoint:

 

Commonwealth War Graves info for both

Medal card info for both.  William John has two cards, one for the 1914 Star having entered France on 11 Sep 1914 and the other without the Star.  Samuel went after the end of 1915.  Both ended service in 1919, Samuel in November and William in March.

 

Their service records do not appear to have survived.  Since you looked last, pension cards, thanks to the Western Front Association, for both have appeared on Ancestry in the Fold 3 additional subscription  area.  These would be well worth looking at  given what still appears to be a puzzle about their deaths as I read the older post.

 

Links:

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=dVB1370&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&dbid=61588&gsfn=william john&gsln=crawford&cp=4&new=1&rank=1&uidh=6x5&redir=false&gss=angs-d&pcat=39&fh=1&h=192480&recoff=&ml_rpos=2

 

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=dVB1372&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&dbid=61588&gsfn=samuel&cp=0&_F548A2D1=41273&new=1&rank=1&uidh=6x5&redir=false&gss=angs-d&pcat=39&fh=0&h=660922&recoff=&ml_rpos=1

 

Max

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Mark1959

There are actually 4 WFA cards for Samuel. Died of TB and Exhaustion. 
Plus 3 for WJ who also died of TB.

Edited by Mark1959

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allymac

Thank you for your help.

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Michelle Young

Topics merged to avoid repetition of answers 

 

Michelle 

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