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Remembered Today:

Phill Jones

4th Battalion Tank Corps

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Phill Jones

can anyone please advise me on the above unit , when were they formed and what actions (if any) did they take part in 

TIA Phill Jones 

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Gareth Davies

Big topic Phill, do you have a specific interest.

 

D Coy was withdrawn from the Somme on 27 Nov 16 to form D Bn.

 

They fought at:

 

Apr & May 17 - Arras

Aug, Sep & Oct 17 - Ypres

Nov 17 - Cambrai

Mar 18 - Spring offensive

Aug 18 - Amiens

Aug 18 - Somme

Sep & Oct 18 - Hindenburg line

 

 

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Phill Jones

Hi Gareth , Thanks for replying to this thread , yes my interest is that a local family asked me to look into a relative 200798 Alexander Urquhart Malcolm he was with the unit until some time in 1918 when he slipped while crossing a trench and broke his leg , there is a lot about him on ancestry   he  served with the 4th Battalion , it seems he arrived in France at the end of Aug 1916 , so he may have taken part in all of the above he was a Gunner , i can be more  specific if you want to know more but many thanks for putting me on the right trail 

Edited by Phill Jones

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George Rayner

On Short Service attestation he is also 2677 M.M.G.S.(?). Interesting how much paperwork a broken leg can generate! On FMP here...

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbm%2fwo363-4%2f007379694%2f01047&parentid=gbm%2fwo363-4%2f7379694%2f36%2f1023

 

George

 

 

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johntaylor

Hi Phill, I've had a look into this and unfortunately haven't found any mention of Gunner Malcolm in the available records for D Bn / 4th Tank Bn.

 

This is disappointing, as he obviously served with the battalion throughout the war until suffering his accidental injury on August 22, 1918. The pension record shows he was in C Company (originally No. 12 Company), which incidentally is the same company as Deborah D51, the surviving tank now on display in the French village of Flesquieres which is the subject of my book. I noticed that one of the witness statements in Malcolm's file is signed by George Killey, who commanded a No. 12 Company tank at the Battle of Cambrai in November 1917, and one from C Company in August 1918. The other witness statement is signed by Reginald Baker, who was in A Company (originally No. 10 Company) at the time of Cambrai. However he left the battalion at the end of August 1918 and was sent home to help set up a new tank battalion, so he may not have been assigned to a company at that time.

 

Unfortunately the surviving crew records for D Bn / 4th Bn are very patchy and unless someone became a casualty or won a medal, their names are often not recorded.  However there is one complete set of crew lists for B and C Companies in the Imperial War Museum - these date from mid-1918, and unfortunately Malcolm's name doesn't appear which suggests he wasn't assigned to a tank crew at that time. These lists are in the papers preserved by Lieut Col L. S. Henshall, who signed another of the documents in Malcolm's file.

 

As I say, this is frustrating but there's still hope - Stephen Pope has a very detailed knowledge of the battalion's crewmen in 1916, and I'm sure he will respond to this inquiry soon.

 

Sorry not to be able to come up with anything more helpful,

 

John

 

 

Edited by johntaylor

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david murdoch

Yes. Got a file on him in my MMGS data! As above he has a surviving service record. I also have his birth and marriage certificates ect. He enlisted in Edinburgh into the MMGS through The Motorcycle newspaper 24/11/1915. Original service number 2677 then transferred to MGC (Heavy Section) 4/5/1916 and went to France with D Coy 28/8/1916, then into D Battalion when it was formed November 1916. There is detailed information in his record regarding his accident as there was an enquiry.

Do you have any photos of him?

 

motorcycle05lond_0893.jpg

Edited by david murdoch

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david murdoch

He most likely enlisted through the regular advert in The Motorcycle newspaper. He would shortlisted and then been summoned down to Coventry and interviewed by Geoffrey Smith the editor and when approved sent directly over to Bisley. You can see his intake are individuals from all over the country. He was a motor salesman on enlistment. He got married in Edinburgh 5th November 1917 which fits into a period of home leave from 2nd to 11th November 1917 (noted on his service record). On his marriage certificate he gave his occupation as Motor Salesman and Gunner 200798 Tank Corps.

RECRUITING march 23 1916 - Copy.jpg

Edited by david murdoch

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hmsk212

Hi

 

For anyone interested a list of some of 4th Battalions Officers

 

272678048_RAF09Oct2014137.JPG.f9d0f83d3cba20d0e1f1c2b38ff6995f.JPG

 

Steve

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johntaylor

Hi, it's worth pointing out that this list from 4th Tank Bn War Diary is undated, but probably dates from Sept/Oct 1918 which is after Gunner Malcolm had been invalided home. It therefore includes many officers who had been drafted in from other battalions, who Gunner Malcolm wouldn't have known. He would certainly have known those on the list who belonged to the same company of 4th Bn (including Enoch, Churchill, Mason and some others).

 

John

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Phill Jones

Thank you to all who have replied to my thread on this , it has been most helpful , David , in reply to you regarding a Photo of Gunner Malcolm. in a nutshell i am not sure ?? , a friend of mine hangs medals , and he was asked if he would hang the BMW & VM belonging to Malcolm by the family then my friend (who hangs medals) asked me to see if i can find out more about Malcolm as the family know nothing about Malcolm , i can  ask if any photos exist and i will come back to you.

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david murdoch
4 hours ago, Phill Jones said:

Thank you to all who have replied to my thread on this , it has been most helpful , David , in reply to you regarding a Photo of Gunner Malcolm. in a nutshell i am not sure ?? , a friend of mine hangs medals , and he was asked if he would hang the BMW & VM belonging to Malcolm by the family then my friend (who hangs medals) asked me to see if i can find out more about Malcolm as the family know nothing about Malcolm , i can  ask if any photos exist and i will come back to you.

I do have this one (not very clear) photo of him. He is on the right. On the left is his brother David Paton Malcolm b1894 d 1961. There is a tree on Ancestry which has various detail on the family. Brother appears to have a medic badge on his arm. Possible match for him is David Malcolm S/20155 Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders and 43274 RAMC.

In the 1930's he was a "Motor Engineer" in Shettleston, Glasgow and had (I presume from the valuation rolls) several garages or car sale rooms and a house on London Road.

a549622d-178b-4b59-bbe7-cc8fb6c9ead8.jpg

Edited by david murdoch

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delta

Yes Malcolm (poor picture below has him on the right) was a member of D Company in 1916 having been a motor salesman in civilian life..

He deployed with the first main body (Company HQ plus Nos 1 and 2 Sections) but his is not listed anywhere in the crewlists in the Adjutant's notebooks which is most odd.

He was granted UK leave in from 2 -16  Nov 1917 (again most unusual) and used the chance to marry Anna Isabella Reid on 5 Nov 17 at St Cuthbert’s Church Edinburgh.

Although we know he served with No 12 Company in 1918, he is again not listed as a crewman on 31 Jul 1918 when Harold Head (then acting OC) submitted his list of tank crews. 

After the accident, he was admitted to 32 Stny Hosp at Wimereux; posted to Tank Depot on 26 Aug 18. Evacuated to UK same day on HS Pieter de Coninck and treated at Mile End Mil Hosp Bancroft Rd E1 and then transferred by ambulance train to Scotland on 29 Oct 18. UK leave from 22 Dec to 2 Jan 19 – mother’s address given for leave.  
Treated at Glasgow in Ward 8A at 3 Scottish Gen Hosp in Stobhill and discharged on 12 Feb 19 - Med Cat B1.  Transferred to Z Reserve wef 3 Mar 19 and home address given as 4 Tarvit Street in Edinburgh.  After the war, he and Anna moved to Glasgow where he worked as a cycle agent (i.e. retailer) and I have found records of two leased properties.

Anna and he had a daughter and two sons.  Newspaper report from Oct 27 gives his address at 80 Langside Avenue, Langside – abutting southern boundary of Queen’s Park close to Cathcart and 3 miles south of central Glasgow.  Newspaper cutting from Aug 38 gives his address as 2029 London Road, Glasgow (close to St Peter’s cemetery Dalbeth on old Glasgow to Carlisle Rd). Later in life he became a wireless engineer. The couple died in 1971. they were living in Blantyre

 

I would be very interested in making contact with the relatives; they may have correspondence which will reveal more about his service and I would love a decent photo....

 

(Post crossed in the ether with that from David)

 

 

 

 .   

Malcolm.jpg

Edited by delta

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INW

Phil

 

My Grandfather Corporal G H Wells 200728 had a similar path through WW1 to your soldier.

I have been able to pull together a lot of information about my grandfather and hope you would like to read my file about him.

P.M. me a conventional email address and I will send it as an attachment.

 

INW

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Phill Jones

Again my very grateful thanks for all that replied to this thread , delta i will see about making contact with the family and get back to you although i believe the family know very little ? INW thanks PM sent  

 

atb Phill

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delta

Phil - thank you.  

I would be happy to pass on any info they need.

My contact email is firsttankcrews@outlook.com.

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