MH106/682 - 38 Casualty Clearing Station (York and Lancaster 8th)

[HughesS&J]

Hi,

 

i am looking for the records for the wounded from the 1st few days of July 1916 (battle of the Somme).  My Grandfather was in the 8th Divison, 24th infantry brigade (8th Division York & Lancaster) and went over the top at Authiville Wood.  Family have said he was wounded on 1st July.  i have noted in this forum that the medical records can be found in MH106/682.  I have tried the national archives without any luck.  Can some one help and point me in the right direction.

thank you - Jan

[MaxD]

MH 106/682 records No 34 Casualty Clearing Station admissions and discharges 1-3 July 1916.  It won't be the only CCS that admitted men that day, do you have evidence your grandfather was admitted to that particular CCS?

 

Those admissions and discharges that have been retained (and only a representative sample were kept) are to be seen in MH 106 series at Kew for free or on Findmypast if you have a subscription or can access the site at a library perhaps.

 

Do you have confirmation he was in 34 CCS?  Perhaps you'd give his name and a check can be made.

 

Max

 

PS.  At the time, 8 Battalion York and Lancaster were in 70 Brigade of 8th Division - 24 Brigade was also in 8th Division until Oct 1915 and then again from 15 July 1916 but it didn't include 8 Y&L so his unit has become a bit confused because of the movements of the battalion.  That said 8 Y&L were indeed at Authuille Wood on 1 July..  

 

 

Edited 3 December , 2019 by MaxD
PS added

[TEW]

By chance I've been working on a project involving MH106/680-683. My interest is in 7th Division wounded from Mametz but I have the pages at home for those books.

If you register with FMP I'm sure you can search the books and see if a result pops up. You'll need to pay to see it.

My estimate is that about 20% of each page has name/number errors in which case you won't get a result, frustrating!

Another issue I've encountered is down to the volume of wounded men being evacuated. This means that the CCS groups that particular divisions should have been evacuated to had become overloaded and shut down. Evacuations then went to CCSs that could take them, including ones that should not have been open at all. NB the books 681-683 are predominately for admissions 2/7/16, there are only a handful of men admitted 1/7/16 as most wounded had to wait till dark to crawl back, they then found that evacuations to CCSs had been restricted!

Next issue is that checking against service records shows that their field ambulance units were recording men as being sent to their designated CCS (which had shut) so were re-routed to another CCS group. EG, nearly all of my records show 22 FA sending men to 5 CCS (B.103 form) whereas they actually turn up at 34.

If he has a service record that would make life easier and his name/number?

TEW

 

 

 

[TEW]

Just to give you an idea, Book 681 has 690 entries, 2 for 8th division. 682 has 690 and 26 for 8th division, 683 has 600 and 99 for 8th Division.

III Corps DDMS has an evacuation scheme dated 17/6/16 For 'forthcoming operations'. It's quite long winded and complex regarding different wound types by brigade. The Vecquemont group (34, & 35) is noted for walking wounded. Frechencourt, Heilly, Puchevillers and Warloy all get a mention, either as CCS groups, MDS or rest stations.

So you have quite a few potential CCSs plus other medical units set up for wounded.

TEW

[MaxD]

Alongside the figures at 34 CCS for 8th Division (total 127) that TEW cites should be placed the casualties (of all types) incurred by 8 Y&L on 1 July 1916.  The war diary records 680 NCOs and men and 23 officers at the start of the attack of whom only 68 men returned.  While some of these may have returned the next day, the numbers illustrate the point we both made that grandfather may well have been treated in another CCS and perhaps in one for which the MH106 records do not survive.

 

Do post his name/number so we can help further.

 

Max

 

 

 

[TEW]

I think there's another post that IDs 'Grandfather'.

 

I can't see any service or pension files for him via ancestry or FMP and no MH106 entry either. Assuming I have the right man I'm afraid you're pretty stuck.

 

I'm not even finding him in the WO Official Casualty Lists which could be for several reasons but probably his wounds were not serious enough for him to be reported as such.

 

His enlistment date 1/3/16 makes it seem a rather short training period to be wounded 1/7/16. Not impossible I think but makes me wonder?

TEW

[MaxD]

Indeed.  If he was 63722 Leonard Charles Crouchman of the Y&L and later 682980 of the Labour Corps then I agree, apart from his medal records and Silver War Badge card, no sign.  His SWB record does give the 1 Mar 1916 enlistment date and sickness as the reason for discharge in March 1919.

 

Max

[HughesS&J]

On 04/12/2019 at 05:10, MaxD said:

Indeed.  If he was 63722 Leonard Charles Crouchman of the Y&L and later 682980 of the Labour Corps then I agree, apart from his medal records and Silver War Badge card, no sign.  His SWB record does give the 1 Mar 1916 enlistment date and sickness as the reason for discharge in March 1919.

 

Max

Yes he was Leonard Crouchman. He was wounded twice - An uncle who talked to him recollects that he received a GSW to the arm on the 1 day of the Somme and said that it saved his life and the second time at Passchendaele  where he lost an eye.  He didn't go to Italy so it must of happened before Nov 1917.  He ended up at Northern Command Labour Corp.  i have found out that he must of transferred between Sept  - Dec 1918 from his service number 682980.  previous service number 63722.  Thank you 

 

On 03/12/2019 at 23:59, TEW said:

By chance I've been working on a project involving MH106/680-683. My interest is in 7th Division wounded from Mametz but I have the pages at home for those books.

If you register with FMP I'm sure you can search the books and see if a result pops up. You'll need to pay to see it.

My estimate is that about 20% of each page has name/number errors in which case you won't get a result, frustrating!

Another issue I've encountered is down to the volume of wounded men being evacuated. This means that the CCS groups that particular divisions should have been evacuated to had become overloaded and shut down. Evacuations then went to CCSs that could take them, including ones that should not have been open at all. NB the books 681-683 are predominately for admissions 2/7/16, there are only a handful of men admitted 1/7/16 as most wounded had to wait till dark to crawl back, they then found that evacuations to CCSs had been restricted!

Next issue is that checking against service records shows that their field ambulance units were recording men as being sent to their designated CCS (which had shut) so were re-routed to another CCS group. EG, nearly all of my records show 22 FA sending men to 5 CCS (B.103 form) whereas they actually turn up at 34.

If he has a service record that would make life easier and his name/number?

TEW

 

 

 

Sorry what is FMP?

[MaxD]

Findmypast, one of the family history web sites. https://www.findmypast.co.uk/

 

In the Military, armed forces and conflict area of the site, they have records which include the National Archive series MH 106 where they have survived.  Here is what the National Archives say about that series:

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C10949

 

A search for your man  on FMP returns only a link to his medal card and to his Silver War Badges which you have already.  (A similar result comes from Ancestry).

 

It is on the basis of no MH 106 record that we are saying that that there are, sadly, no records to be found of his wounding.  .

 

Max

 

 

 

[HughesS&J]

thank you for your help and time -