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Kenneth Walker

Albert Parker BQMS R.F.A

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Kenneth Walker

Hello, we are trying to find the next of kin of this individual when he signed up, He signed up at Shoreham (January 1915) according to November 1918 Casualty List, His Reg # was 58828, we have his medal cards and PRC record , which refers to case ES/50402.There appears to be no attestation papers for either #

When Albert was discharged he was a BQMS with 5c Reserve Brigade R.F.A, he was wounded in France.

Albert also served in Boer war, we have no records for that. 

Any help would be greatly appreciated, Thanks

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Mark1959

Welcome.

The second number you quote appears to a RASC number. Looks like he transferred ans was an acting Sgt in the RASC

Enlisted 4/1/15 discharged 7/5/19. Unfit. RASC ref suggests  he might have tried to re-enlist.

went to France 31/8/15. 
I can tell from the medal card that someone enquired about his records in 1985.

Silver War Badge records show discharge due to wounds. Age at discharge 35.

Appears in a War Office wounded list 6/11/18. So wounded in weeks leading up to that date.

unfortunately nothing giving a hint of family members.

 

Edited by Mark1959

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Kenneth Walker
5 hours ago, Mark1959 said:

Welcome.

The second number you quote appears to a RASC number. Looks like he transferred ans was an acting Sgt in the RASC

Enlisted 4/1/15 discharged 7/5/19. Unfit. RASC ref suggests  he might have tried to re-enlist.

went to France 31/8/15. 
I can tell from the medal card that someone enquired about his records in 1985.

Silver War Badge records show discharge due to wounds. Age at discharge 35.

Appears in a War Office wounded list 6/11/18. So wounded in weeks leading up to that date.

 

Thank you

We have tried the family history route with no success, finding his father is proving difficult

Edited by Kenneth Walker
irrelevant comment

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sotonmate

There is one Gunner A Parker (SN 66703) served with RFA 2 Battery in South Africa. Fought in the Anglo-Boer War in 1900 and returned to England on 26 Nov 1900.

Received Queen's South Africa Medal with 2 clasps,one for Wittebergen and the other for Cape Colony.

There are 2 Driver A Parker one 27269 RFA, and the other 89264 RHA.

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Kenneth Walker

Thanks

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phsvm

Can you give a little bit more background information about where you got his name from etc.  That may help in tracking down more details about him.

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Kenneth Walker

Hi, I am a friend of Albert's grandson, According to 1939 Registry he was born October 1882,he died Liverpool 1949, his grave marker indicates 1884 as a birth.

He married Emily Nicholson(from Liverpool) in Hampstead 1920, his marriage record has Thomas Parker 2nd Lieutenant 20th Hussars as his father, informed sources have told us there was no such officer.

My friend told me that his uncle visited family in Shoreham Sussex 1926-32. searches on all available family history sites and Shoreham portal have been fruitless to date in finding a viable Thomas Parker, who died before 1920 and a connection to Shoreham.

I was hoping the PRC record would help, with Albert being wounded,but there is not much on it

Edited by Kenneth Walker

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charlie962

There was a Thomas Parker, 1546, Private 20th Hussars who was born Shoreditch c July 1858 ;

He enlisted Brighton June 1878 and served 6yrs with the Colours and 6yrs with the Reserve.

I think he married Mary Griffin at Waterford on 3/12/1881. (record difficult to read)

( Source FindmyPast Service Record here)

 

Given that he was right age and married to have had a son 1884, have you seen and ruled him out?

The Lieutenant bit might refer to a subsequent commission,in another unit,  perhaps as a QM or in a Volunteer Regt ?

 

Stretching things but given your struggle its worth just checking him.

 

Charlie

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The Inspector

Hi

Searching the family, apologies if you know this :-

Emily Nicholson, b. 17.10. 1884. Liverpool is Emmie NicholsEn on Ancestry 1911 census at 13 Parliament Place, L'pool with her widowed mother and sister Annie ( Mother Mary had 12 children 7 alive, 5 dec'd). Her brother Samuel, b.1876 was  2264 in Lincs. Regt. prev. 3376 South Lancs. regt.  1891 Emily with family at 55 Beaufort St., Toxteth Park, L'pool. Her father John, a labourer is  on Charlotte's (sister b. 1872) marr. cert in 1893. Address 55 Beaufort St., She married James K (Kneen, Kareen etc. ) Dill, a Police Constable. Looks like Emily's father was John Robert Brusey Nicholson, b.1842 d. 7.2.1905. Mother Mary Welch b. 1843. d. 23.8.1914.

4 hours ago, phsvm said:

Can you give a little bit more background information about where you got his name from etc.  That may help in tracking down more details about him.

As above. where did you get the details of his army service from. Do the relatives have any other docs, medals etc Can you post the marr. cert?. It is very strange not to be able to find anything more about him...searching.....Have you got the right man???

Regards Barry

Edited by The Inspector

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corisande
12 hours ago, The Inspector said:

It is very strange not to be able to find anything more about him...searching.....Have you got the right man???

 

I agree, and having done a number of men in the past with this sort of (lack of) history in the past, there are usually two explanations

 

1. Either he signed up under an alias, often to abandon an earlier family. He would then start effectively a new life after WW1. Sometimes MIC will give an alias as well as real name, but that does not seem to be the case here

 

2. Or he was son of a service family who had been serving abroad during 1891, 1901 censuses and he himself was serving in the army in 1911 census. In which case his father could have been the Thomas Parker in 20th Hussars, probably not a Lt though. If this was the case and the family were overseas in 1891 and 1901 you will not get them as army overseas returns only started in 1911

 

Given he made BQMS in RFA my feeling is that h had prior service somewhere, but I have no idea what name he used

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corisande
14 hours ago, charlie962 said:

There was a Thomas Parker, 1546, Private 20th Hussars who was born Shoreditch c July 1858 ;

He enlisted Brighton June 1878 and served 6yrs with the Colours and 6yrs with the Reserve.

I think he married Mary Griffin at Waterford on 3/12/1881. (record difficult to read)

 

This may or may not be a breakthrough. I attach that marriage cert, right day right bride, but look at grooms name "John Thomas Holmes"!

 

marriage.jpg.0ab738ba036464cd3275f98ba4c1a42c.jpg

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charlie962
1 hour ago, corisande said:

but that does not seem to be the case here

Apart from your clever find of the marriage Cert, I note that on the Hussars Attestation of Thomas Parker he admitted he was previously discharged from the Sussex Artillery Militia as Jas parker !

 

So a Sussex connection and already use of an alias for forename!

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Kenneth Walker
15 hours ago, The Inspector said:

Hi

Searching the family, apologies if you know this :-

Emily Nicholson, b. 17.10. 1884. Liverpool is Emmie NicholsEn on Ancestry 1911 census at 13 Parliament Place, L'pool with her widowed mother and sister Annie ( Mother Mary had 12 children 7 alive, 5 dec'd). Her brother Samuel, b.1876 was  2264 in Lincs. Regt. prev. 3376 South Lancs. regt.  1891 Emily with family at 55 Beaufort St., Toxteth Park, L'pool. Her father John, a labourer is  on Charlotte's (sister b. 1872) marr. cert in 1893. Address 55 Beaufort St., She married James K (Kneen, Kareen etc. ) Dill, a Police Constable. Looks like Emily's father was John Robert Brusey Nicholson, b.1842 d. 7.2.1905. Mother Mary Welch b. 1843. d. 23.8.1914.

As above. where did you get the details of his army service from. Do the relatives have any other docs, medals etc Can you post the marr. cert?. It is very strange not to be able to find anything more about him...searching.....Have you got the right man???

Regards Barry

 Thank you, have asked the relative to join in, in the meantime some records

Albert Parker.jpg

1920 marriage cert Albert Parker and Emily Nicholson.jpg

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charlie962

The Marriage Cert is a Certified Copy, still leaving room for transcription errors.

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corisande
30 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

The Marriage Cert is a Certified Copy, still leaving room for transcription errors.

 

In fact they do even have to be transcription errors. It probably is what he stated that his father was. There is no need to supply proof. He may just have wanted to impress his new wife that the family were gentry.

 

And unfortunately it does not prove his name nor his fathers name was Parker, tht is just what he stated.

 

In later years you would have had to give Birth Cert to prove who you were, but I don't think this had come in by 1920. And even today I think you could say your father was anything you like, Bishop of London, Major General or whatever.

Edited by corisande

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Kenneth Walker

Good Grief !, I hope what you are suggesting is not the case, it's complicated enough going on the information provided.

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John Carrington

Hi everyone, I'm Albert Parker's grandson, thank you all for taking the time to look in to this for me. My cousin has suggested that there may have been a name change in the family but I'm not sure if it would have been Albert or Thomas who changed their name or when.

 

You're right about Census' not being helpful as he may have been away for 1901, I'm not sure about 1911. There is no Albert Parker in 1891 of his age in Brighton and the one in 1911 with Emma can be traced to a different Albert E Parker.

 

My mum said he was shot through the hand which I think was in the Boer war but there was several Albert Parkers injured in that war. For some reason I suspect (with no certainty) that of the many injury's listed he was either number 87269 or 80171, I've no solid reason to think that. But they don't provide any background info as far as I know.

 

Soldiers of the War website couldn't find a Thomas Parker as a lieutenant in the 20th Hussars so it was probably exaggerated by Thomas to Albert.

 

Albert was supposed to have been born in Hove and his roots were in Shoreham which suggests is true by the injury record for WW1.

 

We obtained the army records left in notes by Albert's son Bertram Parker who proudly served in WW2 and was keen to find out more about them both so I suspect it was him that made the 1985 enquiry.

 

I've got some great stories of Bert from WW2.

 

Let me know if there is anything else I can add, I may not be back on line until after 7pm tomorrow though.

 

Thanks again.

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The Inspector

Hi All

Searching everything.....looking for connections...

The addresses given on the marriage cert. for Albert and Emily were divided into apartments in 1911 No trace of Albert @ Mackeson rd. . Cressy Rd., the husband at 24 was a Frank Albert Page from Toxteth, so could be the  connection  for Emily living there in 1920.

On the marr.cert. a witness is Thomas W Dyball, this is probably Thomas William Dyball (b.2.12.1895)  applied to extend service on 29.9.20.  A/RQMS 780736 MGC, prev. KRR. records on Ancestry....looking

Regards Barry

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Kenneth Walker

Hi Barry, 2 of the females in 1920 electoral register at Cressy where Nicholsons, one married an Usher the other a Harrison

Frank Albert Page was an invalid chair maker in 1911 census, mother's maiden name on GRO search index Puddefer can find no marriage for a Page and Puddefer,

1925 and 1929/30 Electoral record Liverpool has Albert and Emily living at same address as Albert and Jessie Glover, also an Ada, can find no connection, the Glovers appear to be brother and sisters.

There is one individual who is of interest Thomas H Parker born 1847 Shrewsbury, he is on 1881 census living in London, late captain 4th Hussars, also 1891 London on reserve list, of course he is single, there are no births for Thomas H (I presume Henry) around 1847 Shrewsbury, the nearest is Stourbridge.

also can find no other records for him.

Regards, Kenneth

Edited by Kenneth Walker

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The Inspector

Hi All...FYI...

John, I see from your tree "John Thomas Parker (b.6.4.1863, Blean, Kent, d. Sept. 1948 Kent) with Gibbens" that you have him as being Albert's father. The photo of JT and his wife is also on other trees  but with different photos of Ellen Jane Gibbens, J.T. Parker Jnr's wife.

In 1901 he is shown as a Master Mariner at 19 Island terrace, Whitstable, Kent. 1871 at 17 Norfolk St., with his family. Father John Thomas Snr, also shown as a "Seaman". John Thomas Jnr, Albert's father,  is shown as marrying Ellen Jane Gibbens on 23.4.1888 Whitstable, Kent. . John Thomas Snr. is shown as dying in 1888, the year of his marriage.

John Thomas Jnr had 4 children, Ruby, Daisy Edith, Jessie May and Constance Violet.

John Thomas Snr. married Catherine Grindler and had 10 children bet. 1853-1875 .( John Thomas Jnr b. 1863.)1871 he is a Mariner. Catherine died  1918, Tynemouth, Northumberland. Connections between Whitstable and Seaham, Durham. bet.1857-1860

I can't find any connections to Albert Parker's father as being Thomas a Lt. from the 20th Hussars....still looking though!

Regards Barry

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Kenneth Walker

Hi everyone, Albert's PRC 3 / M P 8035, region 3 is the North West, is that where he signed up , or is it the region he was living when receiving pension?

 

sorry about that, found answer, claimant's address

 

 

Edited by Kenneth Walker

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John Carrington

Barry, sorry I should have mentioned that if you come across me on Ancestry you'll find I have multiple Parker trees. I've built them with no evidence Albert is part of them in attempt to gain hints because I've hit brickwalls for 6 years with the Shoreham Parkers..

 

The reason why I've left the Whinstable Parkers in place is because I've had 5 different dna 5th-8th cousin connections.

Albert told his children he was a sussex boy and sang a Sussex song but as you're all experiencing the Shoreham Parkers offer nothing concrete. so the dna hints have bewildered me and when I've contacted the members they have either not replied at all or they simply say they have no idea why. I've contemplated whether the Parkers in Whinstable are related to the Parkers in Shoreham and Albert may have been fostered or something but I can't find a link to each family. Plus the mystery remains why doesn't Albert Parker appear anywhere as a youngster before he went to two wars..

 

So if anyone if familiar with dna hints I'm happy to share an image.

 

Once again, I appreciate enormously the time and effort you've put in to help me.

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corisande
On 03/12/2019 at 21:47, charlie962 said:

Given that he was right age and married to have had a son 1884, have you seen and ruled him out?

 

As far as I can see there has not been a courtesy of a reply to this question from Charlie962

 

As Charlie962 said

On 03/12/2019 at 21:47, charlie962 said:

There was a Thomas Parker, 1546, Private 20th Hussars who was born Shoreditch c July 1858 ;

He enlisted Brighton June 1878 and served 6yrs with the Colours and 6yrs with the Reserve.

I think he married Mary Griffin at Waterford on 3/12/1881. (record difficult to read)

 

I then produced the marriage cert showing that that man had changed his name from/to John Thomas Holmes. This was never commented on

 

A lack of any reply, whether dismissive or otherwise, has certainly stopped me continuing to investigate further, and I suspect it has put others off too.

 

24 minutes ago, John Carrington said:

Plus the mystery remains why doesn't Albert Parker appear anywhere as a youngster before he went to two wars..

 

Again I quote from my post 10 on this thread. Again never taken on board or commented on

 

having done a number of men in the past with this sort of (lack of) history in the past, there are usually two explanations

 

1. Either he signed up under an alias, often to abandon an earlier family. He would then start effectively a new life after WW1. Sometimes MIC will give an alias as well as real name, but that does not seem to be the case here

 

2. Or he was son of a service family who had been serving abroad during 1891, 1901 censuses and he himself was serving in the army in 1911 census. In which case his father could have been the Thomas Parker in 20th Hussars, probably not a Lt though. If this was the case and the family were overseas in 1891 and 1901 you will not get them as army overseas returns only started in 1911

 

Given he made BQMS in RFA my feeling is that he had prior service somewhere, but I have no idea what name he used

 

I my opinion we have found your Thomas Parker of 20th Hussars, and that his real name probably was Holmes, but I have no idea why you have decided to ignore/comment on , this. Whatever way some form of direct reply would have been appropriate

 

The only reason that I am replying now is that I forgot to turn off my automatic notification off additions to the thread, which I came here this morning to do, and have now done :)

 

I wish you luck in your search for the Parker ancestors, you have what is more likely to be the solution than anything else. With more work you might even nail it down

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John Carrington

Thanks for your input Corisande, I'll look through all of those queries asap.

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Kenneth Walker
On 07/12/2019 at 01:00, corisande said:

 

As far as I can see there has not been a courtesy of a reply to this question from Charlie962

 

As Charlie962 said

 

I then produced the marriage cert showing that that man had changed his name from/to John Thomas Holmes. This was never commented on

 

A lack of any reply, whether dismissive or otherwise, has certainly stopped me continuing to investigate further, and I suspect it has put others off too.

 

 

Again I quote from my post 10 on this thread. Again never taken on board or commented on

 

having done a number of men in the past with this sort of (lack of) history in the past, there are usually two explanations

 

1. Either he signed up under an alias, often to abandon an earlier family. He would then start effectively a new life after WW1. Sometimes MIC will give an alias as well as real name, but that does not seem to be the case here

 

2. Or he was son of a service family who had been serving abroad during 1891, 1901 censuses and he himself was serving in the army in 1911 census. In which case his father could have been the Thomas Parker in 20th Hussars, probably not a Lt though. If this was the case and the family were overseas in 1891 and 1901 you will not get them as army overseas returns only started in 1911

 

Given he made BQMS in RFA my feeling is that he had prior service somewhere, but I have no idea what name he used

 

I my opinion we have found your Thomas Parker of 20th Hussars, and that his real name probably was Holmes, but I have no idea why you have decided to ignore/comment on , this. Whatever way some form of direct reply would have been appropriate

 

The only reason that I am replying now is that I forgot to turn off my automatic notification off additions to the thread, which I came here this morning to do, and have now done :)

 

I wish you luck in your search for the Parker ancestors, you have what is more likely to be the solution than anything else. With more work you might even nail it down

Well, I apologise for my ignorance, I assure you it was unintentional,have to admit the responses to the query for Albert overwhelmed me somewhat.  I remember that marriage record from a few years ago,in my opinion it is an error on the part of findmypast,rootsireland have John Thomas Holmes in their records and no other.

As there is no annotation in the margin by the registrar the record stands.

I think Thomas Parker born Shoreditch married a Harriett Marrell in Lambeth 1885

 

I have looked for Holmes and Griffin births in England with no success

Thank you corisande and others for your input it is appreciated.

 

Edited by Kenneth Walker

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