Acknown Posted 29 November , 2019 Share Posted 29 November , 2019 This soldier joined the 2nd Battalion Loyal North Lancashire Regiment in the 1900s and by 1911 was in barracks with them in Bangalore, India aged 21 (DOB 29 Feb 90). His MIC and Medal Roll entries show that he was awarded the 15 Star, BWM and VM, having arrived in Africa as a Pte on 16 Oct 14. His battalion served in Africa, Egypt, Palestine and in 1918, on the Western Front. It is possible that he served with the battalion throughout. William died as an 'RSM' in Cornwall in a military accident in 1942 when he was aged 52, of which I have the details. But other than his domestic life, I have no further detail about his WW1 service, whether as seems likely, he attained an NCO rank during the war, and whether he then left the service to rejoin at a later date. I can't find a pension record and a cursory glance through the battalion War Diary for 1918 did not reveal his name. He was still a soldier when he married Edith Tubbs on 28 Jun 19. One area that might prove fruitful would be some sort of sickness record as the battalion suffered badly in Africa. I would be most grateful for any further information. Acknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 29 November , 2019 Share Posted 29 November , 2019 (edited) There is a fascinating statement from him in the PoW statements at DNA that have been digitised by Findmypast. Link is here on FMP Taken PoW 27/7/1918 Edited 29 November , 2019 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 29 November , 2019 Share Posted 29 November , 2019 Alternatively download the 3 pages from DNA here (you can get a sneak preview but it is worth the money - GBP 3.50! Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acknown Posted 29 November , 2019 Author Share Posted 29 November , 2019 Charlie, Brilliant! Thank you. I'd no idea he'd been a POW. Can you find his ICRC card? I can't! Acknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 29 November , 2019 Share Posted 29 November , 2019 1 minute ago, Acknown said: Can you find his ICRC card? I can't! had a look but not found. Also had a look for "Pte Cornel of the 1/4th Bucks", apparently taken 21/3/1918, that he refers to but couldn't find him either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acknown Posted 29 November , 2019 Author Share Posted 29 November , 2019 Thanks anyway. Acknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acknown Posted 1 December , 2019 Author Share Posted 1 December , 2019 I still need to find William Hornblow's ICRC card, if it still exists, and also a map of the COUTREMAIN-TIGNY area in mid-1918 to illustrate the 34th Division's part in the Battle of Soissons. Can anyone help? Acknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 1 December , 2019 Share Posted 1 December , 2019 Of course. The record is as HOMBLOW: of A Company RNLI (sic), RNL on the listing https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Search/#/3/2/224/0/British and Commonwealth/Military/homblow william Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 1 December , 2019 Share Posted 1 December , 2019 1 minute ago, MaxD said: The record is as HOMBLOW: of A Company RNLI Obvious. Well found, sir! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 1 December , 2019 Share Posted 1 December , 2019 The 34 Div HQ war diary has some maps which together with the narrative should fit the bill?? Ancestry here: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/60779/43112_2436_0-00000?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return#?imageId=43112_2436_0-00794 National Archives: WO 95/2436 Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 1 December , 2019 Share Posted 1 December , 2019 PS If you haven't seen it, the 2 LNL war diary has a detailed account of the operations of 23 July to 4 August. It refers to 3 prisoners being take on the night 26/27 July in a raid on a LNL outpost on the far right of the line by the enemy dressed in French helmets. A Company was on the right of the line so this may well have been your man and comrades. Max, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 1 December , 2019 Share Posted 1 December , 2019 48 minutes ago, MaxD said: It refers to 3 prisoners being take on the night 26/27 July in a raid on a LNL outpost on the far right of the line by the enemy dressed in French helmets. A Company was on the right of the line so this may well have been your man and comrades. interesting exercise, this! Using FMP's indexing of ICRC and your clever find of the record for Mr Homblow I find that there are precisely three members of A Company 2nd Battalion LNLR who were taken that date with the same place of capture- Cheval. They are: PA 37451 Walter Leader 40246 PA 37467 Edgar Tubbs (Tabbs) 26164 PA 37447 William Hornblow (Homblow) 9003 Coincidence ? I think not. Max- can you spot Cheval on that map? Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acknown Posted 1 December , 2019 Author Share Posted 1 December , 2019 (edited) Max, More brilliance! How on earth did you find him? He eluded me. Was it just trial and error, or do you have a 'system'? I've read the 2nd Loyals WD and rather discounted the 3 POWs on 26/27 Jul as it's the night before he says he was captured in the statement he gave to the Committee on the Treatment of British Prisoners of War. However, his ICRC records states 27 Jul, so it is possible William was mistaken. Thanks for the map link, Max. I'll see if I can create some dispositions. Aha - I've just read Charlie's post - FMP has an index! I'm beginning to think that the 3 which Charlie names are those captured in the early morning of 27 Jul. Acknown Edited 1 December , 2019 by Acknown Spelling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 1 December , 2019 Share Posted 1 December , 2019 It wos FMP wot dun it! After some abortive tries I used only his service number and keyword prisoner. The small list included William Homblow and from there to ICRC was but one step! I wouldn't call it a system because it doesn't work every time! As the capture was, according to the war diary, during the night of 26/27, I think it quite normal for there to be confusion about the date . I agree with Charlie that the 3 records, all in the same place and with the same day, are your man plus 2. The 101 Brigade line ran from "a wood 500 yards north of Courtemain (Courtremain in the diary) [north] to Parcy Tigny". A Coy 2 LNL was on the absolute right with the 19th French Division to their right (south). You need to zoom right in on the French map centred on Hartennes et Taux. The wood and Parcy Tigny are readily identifiable. I don't find anything resembling Cheval but perhaps, like us, the Germans would have had their own nicknames for places or it could be a garbled name. We are off the trench maps on Mcmaster and NLS right at the extremity of the German advance. On Google Earth :https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2670843,3.3354504,3423m/data=!3m1!1e3 Courtemain is the farm buildings at 49 15 17 N 03 20 40 E, the wood referred to and Parcy et Tigny are a little to the north. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 1 December , 2019 Share Posted 1 December , 2019 23 minutes ago, MaxD said: It wos FMP wot dun it! Max, they are not perfect but then nor is ICRC. I have the feeling that FMP are improving their records by going back and interpretting the 'transcribed' regiment and putting the 'full regiment 'title; One particularly useful search is putting a date in the keyword in inverted commas. eg I searched the above (in the end after a number of trial variations) by putting into keyword: "27 may 1918" cheval having first restricted search to record set prisoners of war 1715-1945 I did chieck by also looking at neighbouring dates and Loyal north lancs. Note date always need to be put in as 2 numbers space three letters space four numbers As for a place called Cheval, trying to find it on google is hopeless- like flogging a dead horse ? charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acknown Posted 1 December , 2019 Author Share Posted 1 December , 2019 Thanks again both of you. Very chevalrous. Acknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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