mstowe Posted 25 November , 2019 Share Posted 25 November , 2019 In reading a pilot's diary, I see that he met up with friends several times at the R.A.C. in London. What is the R.A.C.? I can find the Royal Automobile Club, and that's about it. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 25 November , 2019 Share Posted 25 November , 2019 (edited) I think that's the one. In Pall Mall. Check on google when it was founded Edited 25 November , 2019 by johnboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstowe Posted 25 November , 2019 Author Share Posted 25 November , 2019 Yes, I saw 1914, and now see that it was a private social club as well as what it was originally formed for, so it must be the place. Apparently they chauffeured senior officers around, my pilot was an officer so I guess it was an officer's club of sorts. I had assumed the "A" had to stand for Air something, so interesting to learn about the Automobile Club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pierssc Posted 25 November , 2019 Share Posted 25 November , 2019 Not the same as the separate RAC breakdown service, which was owned by the club until the late 1990s. Paying for the equivalent of a Homestart policy would not have got one in! The Pall Mall premises (which they acquired in 1911) are very large, and plush. It would not have been an Officers' club as such, though no doubt there would have been a large number of Officers (and perhaps some Other Ranks, who knows) who were members - cars then being still sufficiently novel and the Club newly founded (1897) to ensure that the demographic probably tended towards the younger and less traditional rather than the crusty. It has 108 bedrooms (I don't know how many there would have been in WW1) plus bars and restaurants so it would have been like a very exclusive members-only hotel which would have been a very handy base for someone on leave - provided they happened to be a member (or were a member of another club with reciprocal rights) and paid the no doubt hefty sub. It has been suggested below that serving officers might have had some kind of automatic temporary membership - that may well be possible though in the various memoirs I have read RFC officers seem to have tended to patronise particular hotels, restaurants, and night clubs rather than the St James clubs. See also this thread: and this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Strawbridge Posted 25 November , 2019 Share Posted 25 November , 2019 The Royal Automobile Club also provided volunteer drivers in the early part of the War who were then awarded 1914 stars. Some are listed here :- https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_fn=&_ln=&_no=&_crp=Royal+Automobile+Corps&_ttl=&discoveryCustomSearch=true&_cr1=WO+372&_dt=M&_col=200&_hb=tna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstowe Posted 25 November , 2019 Author Share Posted 25 November , 2019 Thanks, was checking out the links. Looking at the archive items, a Royal Automobile Club 'rank' appears in service records, Major or Volunteer Driver. From reading this diary more, I get the impression that there wasn't a membership as such, it must have been automatic for officers. He met everybody there, either his pilot buddies or guys from home. It was the first place he went when he got to London, to get what he called a "cubicle" at the R.A.C. Once he said he couldn't get a room because they were full so he had to get a room in Regent Palace. They must have had a pool at the R.A.C. too because he said some guys came over for a swim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pierssc Posted 25 November , 2019 Share Posted 25 November , 2019 (edited) The pool looks rather nice: https://www.royalautomobileclub.co.uk/pall-mall/sport-and-wellbeing Edited 25 November , 2019 by pierssc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battiscombe Posted 25 November , 2019 Share Posted 25 November , 2019 although both clubs have at time been closely linked I would think this means Royal Aero Club who were responsible for training most pilots [and issuing licenses/certificates] until at least 1915? As I recall online records of early pilots can be found include their pilots licences.. with photos. But he could also have been a member of the other RAC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 25 November , 2019 Share Posted 25 November , 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, mstowe said: In reading a pilot's diary, I see that he met up with friends several times at the R.A.C. in London. What is the R.A.C.? I can find the Royal Automobile Club, and that's about it. Could it not have been the Royal Aeronautical Club - perhaps suitable for a pilot Edit: seems I was just beaten to the draw! ;-) Edited 25 November , 2019 by Matlock1418 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 25 November , 2019 Share Posted 25 November , 2019 12 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said: the Royal Aeronautical Club Perhaps better known as the Royal Aero Club as previously posted history details below - link [R Aero Club and R Automobile C had their links] http://royalaeroclub.co.uk/history-and-origins.php Probably not a pool at Isle of Sheppey [Thames? ;-) so RAC, Pall Mall, it seems to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airshipped Posted 25 November , 2019 Share Posted 25 November , 2019 It wouldn't appear to have been that exclusive a club at the time, being notionally oriented towards young men with an interest in automobiles. However, in wartime there's a claim that it provided 'bed, breakfast and baths' for nearly 230,000 men: https://books.google.ie/books?id=znTamQypfC8C&pg=PT178&dq="r.a.c."+pall+mall&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj3u6zYi4bmAhWEVBUIHemoDUI4ChDoAQg9MAM#v=onepage&q="r.a.c." pall mall&f=false Plenty of memoirs and histories name-check specific individuals from among that wartime cohort, e.g. hockey player Frank McGee: https://books.google.ie/books?id=I4OCBAAAQBAJ&pg=PT141&dq="r.a.c."+pall+mall&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwio2_vdiobmAhUoSRUIHVYkAggQ6AEIazAJ#v=onepage&q="r.a.c." pall mall&f=false Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstowe Posted 25 November , 2019 Author Share Posted 25 November , 2019 6 hours ago, pierssc said: The pool looks rather nice: https://www.royalautomobileclub.co.uk/pall-mall/sport-and-wellbeing Wow, thanks for that. What a pool! I can just see my guys sitting there now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstowe Posted 25 November , 2019 Author Share Posted 25 November , 2019 Yes, the Aero Club that battiscombe pointed out...the searchable database with pics on ancestry is fantastic. Not all of the pilots I study (mostly 1918) were members which kind of surprises me (at least they aren't found in that book), and even my non Aero Club guys stayed at the Royal Automobile Club. But ya, the links above show a definite close connection between the clubs. And a couple of the guys in my group were not RAF, but still went there. One interesting note in the google book link above is that the Canadian Medical Board had their offices there, at the Royal Automobile Club, and Canadian guys got medical exams there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaureenE Posted 25 November , 2019 Share Posted 25 November , 2019 1 hour ago, Airshipped said: It wouldn't appear to have been that exclusive a club at the time, being notionally oriented towards young men with an interest in automobiles. At this time, I would think those with an interest in automobiles would be the wealthy. The group of 25 members of the Royal Automobile Club who volunteered as drivers , for officers of the General Headquarters Staff at the front, were required to provide their own cars, which I think would have been of the very expensive kind. There are two online accounts Adventures on the Western Front, August, 1914-June, 1915 by A Rawlinson 1925 Hathi Trust Digital Library. His car was a modified racing car. From Mons to Ypres with General French; a Personal Narrative by Frederic Coleman. 1916 Archive.org. Frederic Coleman, an American resident in London, was a journalist and Motoring figure who popularized the White Steam car in England and was a prominent figure in English motoring. Cheers Maureen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pierssc Posted 25 November , 2019 Share Posted 25 November , 2019 The Ancestry database shows some (some records are missing) of the people who took the RAeC "ticket" which originally (1912) was something they all did, then by 1916 some of them did, and by 1918 a few of them did. The Club was originally the regulatory body for air sports. The test (which was pretty basic - see https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/research/online-exhibitions/taking-flight/pathway-to-pilot/royal-aero-club-aviators-certificate.aspx) wasn't the same as getting one's wings and was taken at a much earlier stage of training. Nor did they become RAeC members as a consequence. According to Wikipedia 6,300 military pilots took aviator's tickets during WW1 - a fraction of the total number of pilots. 1 hour ago, Airshipped said: It wouldn't appear to have been that exclusive a club at the time, being notionally oriented towards young men with an interest in automobiles. Oh come on! I think most of the young men who could afford to have an interest in automobiles c1914 were by definition quite well-heeled. The Club's President was the Duke of Connaught (when he wasn't being Governor General of Canada) whose successors are the Duke of Kent, Lord Louis Mountbatten, and Prince Michael of Kent. Given that they acquired the largest building n Pall Mall in 1911, taking over the former War Office premises, they seem to have had a bit of cash to splash, wouldn't you say? Not exclusive at all, really! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelS Posted 26 November , 2019 Share Posted 26 November , 2019 9 hours ago, Matlock1418 said: http://royalaeroclub.co.uk/history-and-origins.php Probably not a pool at Isle of Sheppey [Thames? ;-) so RAC, Pall Mall, it seems to be. Don't rule out that he was staying at the Royal Aero Club though (assuming it offered accommodation) as, according to Flight magazine, by August 1909 it was based at 166, Piccadilly (the same piece certainly indicates that there were close connections & collaborations with the Royal Automobile Club which was based nearby at 116, Piccadilly at that time) See https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1910/1910 - 0692.html?search=Royal Aero club. A later edition of December 1916 https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1916/1916 - 1145.html?search=Royal Aero club gives that the Aero Club was moving to 3, Clifford St, New Bond St, with a map showing the location of both the new and the old premises at 166, Piccadilly NigelS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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