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Remembered Today:

What was the R.A.C. (Club) in London?


mstowe

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In reading a pilot's diary, I see that he met up with friends several times at the R.A.C. in London. What is the R.A.C.? I can find the Royal Automobile Club, and that's about it.

Thanks.

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I think that's the one. In Pall Mall. Check on google when it was founded

Edited by johnboy
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Yes, I saw 1914, and now see that it was a private social club as well as what it was originally formed for, so it must be the place. Apparently they chauffeured senior officers around, my pilot was an officer so I guess it was an officer's club of sorts. I had assumed the "A" had to stand for Air something, so interesting to learn about the Automobile Club.

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Not the same as the separate RAC breakdown service, which was owned by the club until the late 1990s.  Paying for the equivalent of a Homestart policy would not have got one in!  The Pall Mall premises (which they acquired in 1911) are very large, and plush.  It would not have been an Officers' club as such, though no doubt there would have been a large number of Officers (and perhaps some Other Ranks, who knows) who were members - cars then being still sufficiently novel and the Club newly founded (1897) to ensure that the demographic probably tended towards the younger and less traditional rather than the crusty.  It has 108 bedrooms (I don't know how many there would have been in WW1) plus bars and restaurants so it would have been like a very exclusive members-only hotel which would have been a very handy base for someone on leave - provided they happened to be a member (or were a member of another club with reciprocal rights) and paid the no doubt hefty sub.  It has been suggested below that serving officers might have had some kind of automatic temporary membership - that may well be possible though in the various memoirs I have read RFC officers seem to have tended to patronise particular hotels, restaurants, and night clubs rather than the St James clubs.
 

See also this thread: 

and this:

 

 

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Thanks, was checking out the links. Looking at the archive items, a Royal Automobile Club 'rank' appears in service records, Major or Volunteer Driver. From reading this diary more, I get the impression that there wasn't a membership as such, it must have been automatic for officers. He met everybody there, either his pilot buddies or guys from home. It was the first place he went when he got to London, to get what he called a "cubicle" at the R.A.C. Once he said he couldn't get a room because they were full so he had to get a room in Regent Palace. They must have had a pool at the R.A.C. too because he said some guys came over for a swim.   

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although both clubs have at time been closely linked I would think this means Royal Aero Club who were responsible for training most pilots [and issuing licenses/certificates] until at least 1915? As I recall online records of early pilots can be found include their pilots licences.. with photos. But he could also have been a member of the other RAC

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12 hours ago, mstowe said:

In reading a pilot's diary, I see that he met up with friends several times at the R.A.C. in London. What is the R.A.C.? I can find the Royal Automobile Club, and that's about it.

Could it not have been the Royal Aeronautical Club - perhaps suitable for a pilot

Edit: seems I was just beaten to the draw! ;-)

Edited by Matlock1418
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12 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

the Royal Aeronautical Club

Perhaps better known as the Royal Aero Club as previously posted

history details below - link [R Aero Club and R Automobile C had their links]

http://royalaeroclub.co.uk/history-and-origins.php 

Probably not a pool at Isle of Sheppey [Thames? ;-) so RAC, Pall Mall, it seems to be.

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It wouldn't appear to have been that exclusive a club at the time, being notionally oriented towards young men with an interest in automobiles.

 

However, in wartime there's a claim that it provided 'bed, breakfast and baths' for nearly 230,000 men:

 

https://books.google.ie/books?id=znTamQypfC8C&pg=PT178&dq="r.a.c."+pall+mall&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj3u6zYi4bmAhWEVBUIHemoDUI4ChDoAQg9MAM#v=onepage&q="r.a.c." pall mall&f=false 

 

Plenty of memoirs and histories name-check specific individuals from among that wartime cohort, e.g. hockey player Frank McGee:

 

https://books.google.ie/books?id=I4OCBAAAQBAJ&pg=PT141&dq="r.a.c."+pall+mall&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwio2_vdiobmAhUoSRUIHVYkAggQ6AEIazAJ#v=onepage&q="r.a.c." pall mall&f=false

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Yes, the Aero Club that battiscombe pointed out...the searchable database with pics on ancestry is fantastic. Not all of the pilots I study (mostly 1918) were members which kind of surprises me (at least they aren't found in that book), and even my non Aero Club guys stayed at the Royal Automobile Club. But ya, the links above show a definite close connection between the clubs. And a couple of the guys in my group were not RAF, but still went there. One interesting note in the google book link above is that the Canadian Medical Board had their offices there, at the Royal Automobile Club, and Canadian guys got medical exams there.

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1 hour ago, Airshipped said:

It wouldn't appear to have been that exclusive a club at the time, being notionally oriented towards young men with an interest in automobiles.

 

At this time, I would think those with an interest in automobiles would be the wealthy.

 

The group of 25 members of the Royal Automobile Club who volunteered as drivers , for officers of the General Headquarters Staff at the front, were required to provide their own cars, which I think would have been of the very expensive kind. 

 

There are two online accounts

Adventures on the Western Front, August, 1914-June, 1915 by A Rawlinson 1925 Hathi Trust Digital Library.

His car was a modified racing car.

 

From Mons to Ypres with General French; a Personal Narrative by Frederic Coleman. 1916 Archive.org.

Frederic Coleman, an American resident in London, was a journalist and Motoring figure who popularized the White Steam car in England and was a prominent figure in English motoring.

 

Cheers

Maureen

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The Ancestry database shows some (some records are missing) of the people who took the RAeC "ticket" which originally (1912) was something they all did, then by 1916 some of them did, and by 1918 a few of them did.  The Club was originally the regulatory body for air sports.  The test (which was pretty basic - see https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/research/online-exhibitions/taking-flight/pathway-to-pilot/royal-aero-club-aviators-certificate.aspx) wasn't the same as getting one's wings and was taken at a much earlier stage of training.  Nor did they become RAeC members as a consequence.  According to Wikipedia 6,300 military pilots took aviator's tickets during WW1 - a fraction of the total number of pilots.

 

1 hour ago, Airshipped said:

It wouldn't appear to have been that exclusive a club at the time, being notionally oriented towards young men with an interest in automobiles.

 

Oh come on!  I think most of the young men who could afford to have an interest in automobiles c1914 were by definition quite well-heeled.  The Club's President was the Duke of Connaught (when he wasn't being Governor General of Canada) whose successors are the Duke of Kent, Lord Louis Mountbatten, and Prince Michael of Kent.  Given that they acquired the largest building n Pall Mall in 1911, taking over the former War Office premises, they seem to have had a bit of cash to splash, wouldn't you say?  Not exclusive at all, really! 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Matlock1418 said:

http://royalaeroclub.co.uk/history-and-origins.php 

Probably not a pool at Isle of Sheppey [Thames? ;-) so RAC, Pall Mall, it seems to be.

 

Don't rule out that he was staying at the Royal Aero Club though (assuming it offered accommodation) as, according to Flight magazine, by August 1909  it was based at 166, Piccadilly (the same piece certainly indicates that there were close connections  & collaborations with the Royal Automobile Club which was based nearby at 116, Piccadilly at that time)  See https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1910/1910 - 0692.html?search=Royal Aero club.  A later edition of December 1916 https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1916/1916 - 1145.html?search=Royal Aero club gives that the Aero Club was moving to 3, Clifford St, New Bond St, with a map showing the location of both the new and the old premises at 166, Piccadilly

 

NigelS

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