Looking for information on pvt AS Hale 18th KRRC

[MalHavardWriter]

Arthur Hale is commemorated on the Menin Gate having died of wounds on 31/7/17 during the Battle of Passchendaele. We believe the 18th were in action around Hollebeke. Any idea which field dressing station he'd have gone to and where the original burial place would have been?

[Coldstreamer]

hello

 

welcome to the forum

 

how do you know he went to a FDS and was originally buried - many men wouldnt have made it to either 

[MalHavardWriter]

You're right, we don't know. It's just based on the entry at Menim that he 'died of wounds' rather than being missing or killed in action. The implication we'd taken from this was that he might have had some treatment. Apologies if wrong, we're new to this! 

[clk]

Hi MalHavardWriter,

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

His Soldiers' Effects record notes his death as "on or since 31.7.1917   Death presm'd" (presumed). So there seems to have been some uncertainty about his actual fate. His wife had hoped that he'd been taken PoW, and contacted the Red Cross to see if they could help.

 

Image source - ICRC

 

Regards

Chris

Edited 24 November , 2019 by clk

[MaxD]

The Register of Soldiers' Effects (deleted Chris has this)

 

The battalion war diary WO 95/2635/3 at the National Archives or here on Ancestry https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/60779/43112_2634_1-00000?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return#?imageId=43112_2635_0-00652 records on 30 and 31 July 1917 that "an account of these days operations will be entered in the Augst war diary".  Trouble is I can't find the account!  Can't find the 122 Brigade WD for that period either - others may have more luck!

 

I'd propose that the best you can assume is that he was wounded end July/early August, buried near the line and the location subsequently lost.

 

Max

Edited 24 November , 2019 by MaxD
slowness of reaction

[Mark1959]

The soldiers effects record gives a gratuity of £3 10s. So approx 13 months service. So called up about June 1916. Fold3 has a widows pension card. Address matches the ICRC one. showing children etc and evidence that his death was only officially confirmed a few months after he went missing. There was probably a witness that said they saw him wounded and as Max suggests subsequently lost.

Can trqce him from birth in Mile End through several census records. Lozenge maker or cutter.

His medal roll entry just says 17th battalion KRRC rather than 18th. A conundrum that without evidence not likely to be resolved. 

[ss002d6252]

In respect of the war gratuity it tells us he was enlisted in the month from 01 July 2016

https://www.wargratuity.uk/war-gratuity-calculator/

 

 

Craig

[MalHavardWriter]

Thanks so much! 

[ss002d6252]

3 minutes ago, MalHavardWriter said:

Thanks so much! 

No problem. The war gratuity is my 'specialist subject'.

 

Craig

[clk]

Hi MalHavardWriter,

 

1 hour ago, MaxD said:

Can't find the 122 Brigade WD for that period either

 

On Ancestry the 122 Brigade HQ diary for July starts here, and the 41 Division HQ diary here. There is help on reading map co-ordinates here.  

 

1 hour ago, MaxD said:

I'd propose that the best you can assume is that he was wounded end July/early August, buried near the line and the location subsequently lost

27 minutes ago, Mark1959 said:

There was probably a witness that said they saw him wounded and as Max suggests subsequently lost.

 

There was a delay of several weeks before a man appeared on a casualty list. When he did appear on one (click here) my observation would be that he appears under the sub heading of "missing", rather than "wounded and missing".

 

Regards

Chris

[MalHavardWriter]

Thanks. This is great. Thanks to you all.