Possible location of burial of Privates Alfred Keegan and Fred Curry, 1st Manchester Pals, at Warlencourt Cemetery

[Mark Hone]

Whilst reviewing the research I did for the school's Centenary Roll of Honour I came across a possibility that the grave of Bury Grammar old boy Sjt Roger Smith MM, who is buried at Warlencourt Cemetery, may actually contain the remains of three soldiers who were killed by the same shell blast. This is certainly what the battalion war diary implies about the original burial, which was later relocated to Warlencourt. The other two, who I established were Privates Keegan and Curry, are commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial. However, the account of the burial service by Revd. Balleine appears to contradict this and it seems that the original wooden grave marker only recorded Smith's name. I did this research in 2016 but do not think I followed it up at the time. What do others think about the possibilities of non-commemoration? 

The relevant section is towards the end of Roger Smith's Roll of Honour entry:

http://bgsarchive.co.uk/Filename.ashx?tableName=ta_boys_rollofhonour&columnName=filename&recordId=41

Edited 23 November , 2019 by Mark Hone

[TEW]

His grave at Warlencourt; plot 8, Row J grave 49 is where his concentrated remains were re-interred circa July 1920. The original burial was at 57c.M.35.c.2.6. Quite what the graves unit found at that location in 1920 is guess work but I can't see parts of 3 bodies being concentrated as one and buried with no mention of the other two. For starters I'm sure the grave unit men were paid per body so nothing gained by them for gathering up three men as one.

 

Quote

They collected together what they could find and buried them

’

Maybe into one grave, maybe not? But sounds like only Smiths remains were found 1920.

 

Concentration reports frequently mention 'bodies intermingled, re-buried together'

 

TEW

[BarbaraG]

CWGC has details for Grave Registration and Concentration in the Archives Section below Cemetery details..

 

Quote 'These record details of individuals who were originally buried in smaller or isolated cemeteries, but who, at a later date, were exhumed and reburied in war cemeteries. The concentration of cemeteries allowed otherwise unmaintainable graves to be moved into established war grave cemeteries where the Commission could ensure proper commemoration.'

 

https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/242119/smith,-roger/

 

Barbara

Edited 22 November , 2019 by BarbaraG
Additional note

[Mark Hone]

Thanks. As far as I can see, the IWGC/CWGC has only ever been aware of the possibility of Roger Smith being buried in the grave. This is presumably because the wooden grave marker, referred to in the Padre's account of the burial and discovered by the Graves Registration Unit at the original grave site (referenced on the Concentration Form), contained only his name. However, there is a clear discrepancy between that and the 16th Manchesters War Diary account which unequivocally states that the original burial contained the remains of all three men:

‘Sergeant 6683 Roger Smith of A Company was in a forward post with two other men. The Germans had been shelling the 16th Battalion’s positions for two hours. After the shelling stopped a party was sent out to check on the post. They found the remains of three men at the spot but could not positively identify them. They collected together what they could find and buried them’.

I am still puzzled as to how this discrepancy arose; did the Adjutant, or whoever drew up the War Diary entry, get the facts wrong? If the original burial was of three men why, as TEW indicates, did the original grave marker make no reference to this fact? As I comment on my Roll of Honour entry for Roger Smith, at this distance in time the mystery is probably beyond solution but nevertheless, in my view,  there is at least some evidence of possible non-commemoration at Warlencourt Cemetery. Sufficient for 'Believed to be buried in this cemetery'? Perhaps not.

Edited 23 November , 2019 by Mark Hone

[charlie2]

Mark,

sorry but I think you are reading something into the war diary entry which isn‘t there. It only states that they found the remains of three men and buried them, there is no indication that they were buried in the same grave.

 

Charlie

[TEW]

Yes, have to second Charlie's view.

TEW

[Mark Hone]

 That's fine, I only offered it up for other peoples' comments. I must say that I still interpret the War Diary entry as indicating that remains probably belonging to all three soldiers were originally buried. If so, why was only Serjeant Smith commemorated by name on a grave marker? Whatever, we laid a wreath on the relocated grave at Warlencourt during our 2016 Somme Centenary Battlefields Tour. 

 

Edited 23 November , 2019 by Mark Hone

[andrew pugh]

Hi Mark

Is there any other explanation or circumstances in the Brigade War Diary about how his death is recorded?

Regards

Andy

[Mark Hone]

Very interesting, Andy. I hadn't considered looking at the Brigade WD.