RichardsProductions99 Posted 20 November , 2019 Share Posted 20 November , 2019 For those who haven't seen my other thread, here is some background information: I am currently now attempting to decipher a copy of his medal card that I downloaded from the National Archives UK. What do the 'TP/' bits refer to, what are the 'page' numbers in the right column, and what does the 'do' mean? Best wishes, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 20 November , 2019 Admin Share Posted 20 November , 2019 Hi Chris "do" = ditto. The TPs refer I think to the relevant Medal Rolls (which you could view on Ancestry if you have a subscription) but experts will correct me if I am wrong. BTW you can also access a full colour version of the MIC via Ancestry free without a subscription (need to register). David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDWARD1 Posted 20 November , 2019 Share Posted 20 November , 2019 The TP....refers to the Service Medal and Award Rolls with page no 500 for Victory & British War Medal and 285 for the 15 Star. do is the earlier version of ……"...… (dfitto) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 20 November , 2019 Admin Share Posted 20 November , 2019 Apparently he was awarded the Military Medal FMP link That shows he was in the 2nd Battalion The war diary for that battalion 1916 - 1919 can be downloaded from TNA here for a small fee https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7353567 It should also be available on Ancestry.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 20 November , 2019 Share Posted 20 November , 2019 (edited) The MM is mentioned in the above link, medal rolls show 2nd, 32nd and 3rd battalions (in the absence of service papers it’s great that the rolls show when he served with these battalions) Edited 20 November , 2019 by jay dubaya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardsProductions99 Posted 20 November , 2019 Author Share Posted 20 November , 2019 Thank you so much all! I am very grateful for all this information, it has revealed details to me which I never knew, nor did my Grandmother, as her Dad never really spoke much about his wartime experiences at all. Thanks especially to jay dubaya. To see the Battalions in which he served is quite something! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rksimpson Posted 20 November , 2019 Share Posted 20 November , 2019 Hi All explained here - https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/ Click on the How to... link and follow through the guides that come up. regards Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 20 November , 2019 Share Posted 20 November , 2019 (edited) Hi Chris, 5 hours ago, RichardsProductions99 said: Thanks especially to jay dubaya. To see the Battalions in which he served is quite something! The rolls also show his times in active theatre. The two gaps would explain his two wound stripes, per your other thread. The end dates for the 3rd Bn (28.5.1915) and the 32nd Bn (15.9.1916) are likely to show when he was evacuated from theatre and returned to the UK for ongoing medical treatment/recuperation. His wounds may have been sustained only a short time before evacuation. They are unlikely to mention Lewis by name, but It might be worth looking at the battalion war diaries to see if anything jumps out - TNA search page here. Regards Chris Edit: The ''Z. Res.'' ('Z' Reserve) is explained here Edited 20 November , 2019 by clk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardsProductions99 Posted 20 November , 2019 Author Share Posted 20 November , 2019 (edited) Having looked around the 15th September 1916, there was of course a major push at the start of the Battle of Flers-Courcelette. Quite a few were wounded then. No specifics obviously in the diary. Edited 20 November , 2019 by RichardsProductions99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardsProductions99 Posted 26 December , 2019 Author Share Posted 26 December , 2019 Hello All! I have a question, the answer to which could solve another mystery. Whilst trying to find the exact date of Lewis' Military Medal winning, I noticed on the medal card that there is a very small pair of numbers '8/18' Is this the date of the action that he won the medal for, and if it is is it August 1918 or 18th August? The reason I ask is, my Uncle recounted just the other day, that the medal may have been won for an entirely different event to what I thought it was. What would be the turnaround from being commended, to actually receiving a medal? Does anyone know? Best wishes, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 26 December , 2019 Share Posted 26 December , 2019 The format '8/18' would mean August 1918 but if it's the number on the bottom of the card then that is purely a printers reference. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardsProductions99 Posted 26 December , 2019 Author Share Posted 26 December , 2019 Ah, I hoped it would indicate when the event may have occurred. Is there any way to find out the date of the action? As there is no date of a Gazette which might pin it down, though the Folkestone, Hythe, Sandgate, and Cheriton Herald (his local paper) mentions him having received the medal in the November 9th 1918 edition. Also the medal has the 2nd Battalion inscribed on it, the unit he was with from March 1917-March 1919. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardsProductions99 Posted 26 December , 2019 Author Share Posted 26 December , 2019 (edited) Essentially my reason for revising the believed version of events is that according to my Uncle the other day, my Great Grandfather said something like he had received his medal late(r) in the war after taking a wrong turn and ending up behind the enemy lines (whilst carrying a message?) and managed to get back to his own trenches. A hazy recollection but a lead one must follow. Would such a thing be recalled in a Battalion diary? Edited 26 December , 2019 by RichardsProductions99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 26 December , 2019 Share Posted 26 December , 2019 He was gazetted in Feb 1919 but these are quite often 'mop up' editions and the actual award could have been for something a good while before. The November 1918 newspaper was probably based on him having being told he was being put forward for the award but that still doesn't help with the actual date. You're probably best off starting In October 1918 and working backwards through the diaries. The battalion diary (and possibly the Brigade diary) might record the event or the award, it would be hit or miss as to whether or not it was noted in the diary. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardsProductions99 Posted 26 December , 2019 Author Share Posted 26 December , 2019 Just now, ss002d6252 said: He was gazetted in Feb 1919 but these are quite often 'mop up' editions and the actual award could have been for something a good while before. The battalion diary (and possibly the Brigade diary) might record the event or the award, it would be hit or miss as to whether or not it was noted in the diary. Craig How did you find Feb 1919? And yes it must be a 'mop up' as he was reported as winning it as I said, the previous November, so the event must've taken place before that. Weirdly (and this may be muddying the waters) but I looked at 18th August entries in the Battalion diary, and for the 1917 one, it mentions two unarmed soldiers getting lost and stumbling on a German patrol who they captured. A weird coincidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 26 December , 2019 Share Posted 26 December , 2019 (edited) Hi Do you have this family photo? Regards Barry Edited 26 December , 2019 by The Inspector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardsProductions99 Posted 26 December , 2019 Author Share Posted 26 December , 2019 I can truthfully say, I've never seen it before in my life, that's incredible! Where did you get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 26 December , 2019 Share Posted 26 December , 2019 Hi Public Tree on Ancestry, linked to his father James Samuel Blackman, b.27.1.1871 d. 1950 11A Victoria Rd, Hythe. Regards Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardsProductions99 Posted 26 December , 2019 Author Share Posted 26 December , 2019 4 minutes ago, The Inspector said: Hi Public Tree on Ancestry, linked to his father James Samuel Blackman, b.27.1.1871 d. 1950 11A Victoria Rd, Hythe. Regards Barry Thank you very much for posting the picture, I don't have an ancestry membership, only Findmypast, so probably why I missed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardsProductions99 Posted 27 December , 2019 Author Share Posted 27 December , 2019 Is it possible for a medal recommendation to be made in 1917, then take until 1918/1919 to be fulfilled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 27 December , 2019 Share Posted 27 December , 2019 11 hours ago, RichardsProductions99 said: How did you find Feb 1919? And yes it must be a 'mop up' as he was reported as winning it as I said, the previous November, so the event must've taken place before that. Weirdly (and this may be muddying the waters) but I looked at 18th August entries in the Battalion diary, and for the 1917 one, it mentions two unarmed soldiers getting lost and stumbling on a German patrol who they captured. A weird coincidence? Do a quick google for 'london gazette blackman 11281' You'll see that amongst the top search results there's a London Gazette and the Edinburgh Gazette (the Scottish counterpart). The London one is missing the date from the top of the scanned page however the Edinburgh one shows the date. It would be a co-incidence but if it works ! Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 27 December , 2019 Share Posted 27 December , 2019 7 hours ago, RichardsProductions99 said: Is it possible for a medal recommendation to be made in 1917, then take until 1918/1919 to be fulfilled? It would be a long time but it's possible - as far as I know there was no time limit on making the award. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardsProductions99 Posted 27 December , 2019 Author Share Posted 27 December , 2019 (edited) It just seems strange that the event I found in 1917, about two (importantly other ranks) soldiers becoming lost and stumbling on the Germans; Would be mentioned, but the event described by my Uncle of an almost identical nature be not. there is no mention of him being awarded and MM in either half of the Battalion War diary, but as he had it sent to him by post, refusing to receive it in person, it probably wouldn’t be mentioned. Edited 27 December , 2019 by RichardsProductions99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 27 December , 2019 Share Posted 27 December , 2019 35 minutes ago, RichardsProductions99 said: It just seems strange that the event I found in 1917, about two (importantly other ranks) soldiers becoming lost and stumbling on the Germans; Would be mentioned, but the event described by my Uncle of an almost identical nature be not. there is no mention of him being awarded and MM in either half of the Battalion War diary, but as he had it sent to him by post, refusing to receive it in person, it probably wouldn’t be mentioned. Diaries can be very hit and miss, sometimes it's even just down to whoever was writing it for that period in time - it may or may not be the same event. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardsProductions99 Posted 27 December , 2019 Author Share Posted 27 December , 2019 3 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said: Diaries can be very hit and miss, sometimes it's even just down to whoever was writing it for that period in time - it may or may not be the same event. Craig Ah I see, it’s be strange if it was another event, did people often walk into German patrols by accident? Also being a signaller, Lewis was predominantly unarmed, which the entry mentions as both men being without weapons. and capturing three Germans whilst unarmed does seem a possible MM worthy event? I understand all soldiers got a copy of any citation like that made? I’m surprised duplicates weren’t made for records etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now