Insignia and colours for my Great Grandfather's uniform

[RichardsProductions99]

Ah I see, strange about the rear sign, must've had some reasoning behind it.

 

This may seem a fatuous question, but what did signallers do when not laying wires, testing landlines etc. Were they always unarmed? As I haven't seen a picture of a signaller with a weapon.

59 minutes ago, cmf said:

Excellent photo, Chris!

 

When it comes to colour, the slip-ons would have been blue, but determining colour shades on orthochrome photos can be a dark art . . . if you go to the post here you'll see how the blue in the signallers white over blue brassard appears in orthochrome . . .

 

Note the crossed-flags skill-at-arms badge being worn above the rank chevrons by the Serjeant and two Lance-Corporals, indicating their appointment as assistant instructors in signalling.

 

The shallow triangular 'battle insignia' of the 29th Division was purely red. No blue.

 

Chris

Ah thank you for the link, so it seems that it could be a sought of mid-blue, neither dark nor very light.

[RichardsProductions99]

Another query I have just thought of, is why does Lewis' cap badge look different to the others in the second photo I posted of several signallers together.

It looks shinier/more polished/smooth and of a slightly different shape, especially as there appears to be a second circle/protruding element on the 'flame' part of the flaming grenade emblem?

 

Does anyone know why this is? I can't find any badge that looks like it online so far?

Edited 4 January , 2020 by RichardsProductions99

[WhiteStarLine]

On 02/12/2019 at 11:18, RichardsProductions99 said:

what did signallers do when not laying wires, testing landlines etc. Were they always unarmed? As I haven't seen a picture of a signaller with a weapon.

Great photo and interesting thread.  They worked non stop:  Line repair, line maintenance, new lines, switchboards, working shifts on headquarters, supervising battalions digging in cable, firing rockets, flares & fireworks, working with carrier pigeons, messenger dogs, runners, despatch riders.  The more technical signallers assisted with advanced technologies such as the power buzzer and amplifier and many varieties of wireless and wired communication.  They also coded and encoded messages - one of my grandfather's signals from the Battle of Hamel calls for anyone who has found German signal cards to bring them in and another has a word that was presumably incorrectly coded and he has written the best guess of the cipher text.

 

Plus, they spent a lot of time in battlefield recovery during the 1918 advance phases - the unpleasant task of roaming battlefields with their handcarts as soon as the firing stopped and salvaging any useful signals gear.  There are numerous references to this, sometimes the day after each consolidation.  One of my grandfather's photos shows his handcart at the rear of a crashed aircraft.

 

Of his signal section during the course of the war, 11 were killed, 12 gassed / wounded and 14 Military Medals and 2 Military Crosses were awarded.  When he died in 1938 it was attributed to war service.

 

With regards to weapons, normally they were under constant threat from deliberate shell fire and occasional long range machine gun fire, so no real need to carry a weapon unless advancing.  Often when repairing line breaks under fire, they judged the fall of shot from the 77 mm and were skilled at jumping into a crater at the right moment then resuming the repair until the next shell was fired.  A rifle would inhibit you doing this task and is not effective against field artillery.  His section carried weapons when required and at Hamel and Battle of Amiens, his signal section bayonetted 2 machine gunners and captured 13 prisoners, 8 of these when a runner single-handedly cleared freshly-captured dugouts.  Almost all members were recorded as working in areas saturated with gas and many were individually targeted by shellfire / gas / machine gun fire or rifle propelled grenades.

 

Attached photos show my grandfather somewhere on the Somme with his 303 and small box respirator (gas mask), with signal brassard (London Portrait Company) and also his section with their handcart.  We still have his chevrons and Divisional patch.

 

 

 

[RichardsProductions99]

Thank you WhiteStarLine, that explains a lot, I knew it was a risky job but it sounds even more dangerous than I first thought.

some incredible pictures too; it is very special to have such evidence of your relative’s war service, really brings it home. 

[RichardsProductions99]

Any ideas about the cap badge? 

[GWF1967]

34 minutes ago, RichardsProductions99 said:

Any ideas about the cap badge? 

 

 

Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment)!

 

[RichardsProductions99]

Just now, GWF1967 said:

Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment)!

 

Yes of course, it was his regiment, i meant why is it visibly smoother and more polished (almost gilded looking) compared to the other cap badges (see main pic on page 1) and even among the other men’s badges there are discrepancies and differences in appearance? How many variations were there or is it the makers style?

[GWF1967]

1 minute ago, RichardsProductions99 said:

Yes of course, it was his regiment, i meant why is it visibly smoother and more polished (almost gilded looking) compared to the other cap badges (see main pic on page 1) and even among the other men’s badges there are discrepancies and differences in appearance? How many variations were there or is it the makers style?

.

Different cap and body angles cause elongation and glare. Some men bent badges for a better comfort fit, or to enable a cap to be folded and pocketed. Old sweats may have spent years polishing the same badge.

[RichardsProductions99]

1 minute ago, GWF1967 said:

.

Different cap and body angles cause elongation and glare. Some men bent badges for a better comfort fit, or to enable a cap to be folded and pocketed. Old sweats may have spent years polishing the same badge.

Well if he had the same badge since 1915/16 till 1918 when the picture was likely taken, I imagine he would’ve well-polished it over that time! 

As you suggest it makes sense that the glare of the flash bulb or just the daylight could cause it to seem so bright as well.

[FROGSMILE]

Just to second GWF1967’s comment, it is very apparent that all the Royal Fusiliers in your photos have highly polished their buttons, shoulder titles and cap badges to an exceptional degree.

Edited 4 January , 2020 by FROGSMILE