stevie1944 Posted 18 November , 2019 Share Posted 18 November , 2019 Hello, can anyone point me in the right direction for a record of wartime burials of the 27th Brigade, 9th (Scottish) Division at Villers au Bois Station Cemetery? I checked the war diaries for the 12th Bn. RS and found the mention of the 12 killed and 14 wounded on 6/9/16 but no mention of where the remains were sent. I also referenced the war diary of the 27th Field Ambulance, assigned to the 27th Brigade, and found mention of the 14 wounded Royal Scots admitted, but no mention of the 12 dead and their burial. I checked with the CWGC and the only record they have is of the 9 buried at Villers Station, and one commemorated on the Arras Memorial - the other two are missing. Am I correct to assume that the Field Ambulances were responsible for burials of the divisional dead? If these were not mentioned in the war diaries, where would I be able to find them, or were the burials not recorded? the cemetery at Villers au Bois station had a light railway running adjacent to the cemetery. This railway was used for moving supplies to the front; am I correct to assume that it would also be used to transport the wounded and dead to the rear for treatment or burial? Any direction on where to search for this information would be much appreciated. Thank you everyone for your help! Cheers - Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 18 November , 2019 Share Posted 18 November , 2019 (edited) Have you accounted for all those attached at the time, I see 3495 Lowe is missing from the CWGC search, the database doesn't show his attachment but the burial record does, checking against Soldiers Effects may confirm, I suspect it's a similar case with the others. J Edited 18 November , 2019 by jay dubaya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie1944 Posted 18 November , 2019 Author Share Posted 18 November , 2019 Yes, I've accounted for all those attached to the 12th Bn. RS. Unfortunately there are still two individuals whom I cannot account for. I've requested the location of the 14 unknowns buried in Villers au Bois. Perhaps something will stick out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 19 November , 2019 Share Posted 19 November , 2019 The September casualties noted in the 27th Inf Bde diary would appear at odds with the 12th RS diary and both appear at odds with the CWGC database who record 16 casualties for the 12th RS for the month of September 1916 (this number does not include Pte Lowe) the 27th Inf Bde diary records 1 officer and 28 ORs wounded, 8 ORs killed and 3 ORs missing for the same time period. I have the CoG reports for Villers Station which show 12 unknowns (some id'd by regiment) who were concentrated to the cemetery post war and the GRRF records one unknown buried during the war amongst the Canadians, I couldn't find a 14th unknown buried there but I could have missed him. At Barlin CCE there is a Pte 43280 Blair who died of wounds on the 7th, he can't be one of the 14 wounded. Two others also stand out a little, Ptes 20452 Watson and 26389 Lefevre, both recorded as KiA on the 15th (the battalion were at rest at this time) and both are remembered on the Arras Memorial. The 27th FA at the time were at Les Quatre Vents some 7 miles SW of Villers Station when they received the 14 wounded, this may suggest that those who were KiA were buried in the cemetery by their comrades leaving the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie1944 Posted 19 November , 2019 Author Share Posted 19 November , 2019 23 minutes ago, jay dubaya said: The September casualties noted in the 27th Inf Bde diary would appear at odds with the 12th RS diary and both appear at odds with the CWGC database who record 16 casualties for the 12th RS for the month of September 1916 (this number does not include Pte Lowe) the 27th Inf Bde diary records 1 officer and 28 ORs wounded, 8 ORs killed and 3 ORs missing for the same time period. I have the CoG reports for Villers Station which show 12 unknowns (some id'd by regiment) who were concentrated to the cemetery post war and the GRRF records one unknown buried during the war amongst the Canadians, I couldn't find a 14th unknown buried there but I could have missed him. At Barlin CCE there is a Pte 43280 Blair who died of wounds on the 7th, he can't be one of the 14 wounded. Two others also stand out a little, Ptes 20452 Watson and 26389 Lefevre, both recorded as KiA on the 15th (the battalion were at rest at this time) and both are remembered on the Arras Memorial. The 27th FA at the time were at Les Quatre Vents some 7 miles SW of Villers Station when they received the 14 wounded, this may suggest that those who were KiA were buried in the cemetery by their comrades leaving the line. J, do you have access to the 12th RS War Diary? I've been searching everywhere for it to no avail. I was hoping Ancestry would have it but no luck. Would the war diary of the RS record the burial of their own men, or was this something that was just done. Thanks again for the insight - much appreciated! Regards - Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 19 November , 2019 Share Posted 19 November , 2019 If you have subs for ancestry it's here posing as a 27th Infe Bde diary. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie1944 Posted 19 November , 2019 Author Share Posted 19 November , 2019 42 minutes ago, jay dubaya said: If you have subs for ancestry it's here posing as a 27th Infe Bde diary. J Thank you sir! Found it hiding in the 27th Bde! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie1944 Posted 20 November , 2019 Author Share Posted 20 November , 2019 On 19/11/2019 at 15:43, jay dubaya said: The September casualties noted in the 27th Inf Bde diary would appear at odds with the 12th RS diary and both appear at odds with the CWGC database who record 16 casualties for the 12th RS for the month of September 1916 (this number does not include Pte Lowe) the 27th Inf Bde diary records 1 officer and 28 ORs wounded, 8 ORs killed and 3 ORs missing for the same time period. I have the CoG reports for Villers Station which show 12 unknowns (some id'd by regiment) who were concentrated to the cemetery post war and the GRRF records one unknown buried during the war amongst the Canadians, I couldn't find a 14th unknown buried there but I could have missed him. At Barlin CCE there is a Pte 43280 Blair who died of wounds on the 7th, he can't be one of the 14 wounded. Two others also stand out a little, Ptes 20452 Watson and 26389 Lefevre, both recorded as KiA on the 15th (the battalion were at rest at this time) and both are remembered on the Arras Memorial. The 27th FA at the time were at Les Quatre Vents some 7 miles SW of Villers Station when they received the 14 wounded, this may suggest that those who were KiA were buried in the cemetery by their comrades leaving the line. J, I'll do some diggining on Watson and Lefevre and see what I can find. I also sent an enquiry into CWGC for any burials near the Quarry (where the 12 were killed) to see if they were buried near where they were killed. My initial thought is they were attached to the 12th RS from either the 1/5 or the 1/9. Or their bodies were so mangled from the shell that there was nothing to bury. I checked the soldier's effects database and all KIA we already know about are accounted for. What confuses me is how were these two not listed as missing or accounted for in the soldier's effects database? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie1944 Posted 21 November , 2019 Author Share Posted 21 November , 2019 So after my research tonight I'm fairly certain that the two individuals who we are unable to identify are not Royal Scots. The Register's of Soldier's Effects lists the 10 RS or attached, and the Royal Scots Roll of Honour for WWI has all 10 accounted for. The CWGC also has 10/12 accounted for. Perhaps the other two were not Royal Scots. Royal Engineers, RFA maybe? Maybe there was a gun pit in the Quarry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 21 November , 2019 Share Posted 21 November , 2019 Or the number 12 is erroneous and all fatalities are accounted for, there are no other burials in Villers Station with the 6th September date. Do we know which other divisions were in the area? The cemetery appears to be one where field ambulances were stationed so many be worth a further look for FA diaries. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie1944 Posted 21 November , 2019 Author Share Posted 21 November , 2019 2 hours ago, jay dubaya said: Or the number 12 is erroneous and all fatalities are accounted for, there are no other burials in Villers Station with the 6th September date. Do we know which other divisions were in the area? The cemetery appears to be one where field ambulances were stationed so many be worth a further look for FA diaries. J I will double check. The 27th FA notes the fourteen wounded men admitted. Where it is interesting is the war diary mentions "12 killed (3 died of wounds)." In order to be categorized as having died of wounds the three must have made it at least to an aid post. I will check the war diaries of both the 26th and 27th FA to see if there are any entries for those dates. The Royal Scots Roll of Honour mentions no other RS having died on 6/9/16, so I'm starting to believe they were not RS. There is mention in the the 27th Bde diary that the 27th Trench Mortar Battery was firing from the quarry in late August; I will check their diary for any notations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 21 November , 2019 Share Posted 21 November , 2019 Were the South Africans the relieving battalion? May be worth a check Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie1944 Posted 21 November , 2019 Author Share Posted 21 November , 2019 4 minutes ago, jay dubaya said: Were the South Africans the relieving battalion? May be worth a check Yes the 1st SA relieved the RS. I'll check their diary today and report back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul.pengelly Posted 22 November , 2019 Share Posted 22 November , 2019 Saw this yesterday while looking through 6th Field Company Canadian Engineers diaries Dec 1917 ”Rispin “camp Villers-au-Bois which shows the Field Ambulance (right hand side) marked ,is this the one you were referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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