Bertie Wheeler service numbers

[chaz]

just taken reciept of a death plaque to a Bertie Wheeler.

according to CWGC there was a Bertie 38125 Queens (Royal West Surrey) then 89554 Labour Corps, died in Middlesex of Pneumonia 31/12/1917.

there is also a Bertie 38034 Northamptonshire then 89854 Labour Corps 

 

there is also a B (found to be Bertie) died 2/7/1917 Mesopotania 201370 previously 3745 Hampshire regt.

 

regarding the first CWGC has his number as 38125 transferring to 89554 on his grave registration and certificate but I cant find a MIC for him.

there is a MIC for Bertie 38034 Northants and 89854 Labour.

are these two records the same man?

why no mention on the MIC or rolls of 38125? likewise CWGC have no mention of 38034..

any ideas or conformation?

[butler]

The CWGC gives the details of the first unit he joined and unit when he died, whereas the Medal index card normally only gives units a man served abroad with. So I would say he enlisted Queens Regt, transferred to the N'hants Regt prior to overseas service and then transferred again to the Labour Corps. 

[butler]

Further to my previous reply. The Labour Corps service number shows him as being in 150th Company Labour Corps, which was 12th Infantry Labour Company N'hants Regt prior to the formation of the Labour Corps in May 1917 and the transfer of the Infantry Labour Companies to the Labour Corps.

It is most probable that he would have enlisted with the Queens Regt as 38125, and when found not to be fit enough for front-line duties transferred to 12th Infantry Labour Company, N'hants Regt as 38034 late February 1917. He would then have been posted overseas in March/April 1917 prior to his transfer to the Labour Corps in May 1917.

[chaz]

I dont have access to FWR but according to FWR they have records 89854 dated 1914 Labour Corps, 38034 dated 1914 Northampton and 38125 dated 1917 Queens .

Im guessing as there is also a 3508 early number its possible Queens in the Boer War. cant find 1901 census so age 17 in 1902 he might have been serving?

why they have those dates for the regiments I cant check

[butler]

I cannot find him on the medal rolls for the Boer War, either as a Royal Fusilier or Queens Regt.

 

I have done some research on the Hampshire Regt Infantry Labour Companies. They were formed and moved to France in the space of about 1 month. They were formed from men not fit enough for front line service and there were a significant number who had previously volunteered in the war but had been discharged as unfit for further service.  There are  enough of these to make it appear that they were 'invited back' for service at the lower medical grade. It is possible that your man had previously enlisted for war service in the Royal Fusiliers ( a TF Battalion  as its a 4 figure number) and been discharged as unfit, then reenlisted with the Queens Regt.

 

With regard to the FWR hits, you would need to see the actual documents referred to The Labour Corps was not formed until 1917, and the N'hants Regt Service number would not have been used until about 1917.

 

[ss002d6252]

The war gratuity on the effects records should give an ideas over the length of his current service at the time of death. On my phone at the moment so can't look.

 

Craig

[Terry_Reeves]

You might want to investigate also men with the name Albert and  Bertram of which the diminutive could also have been Bertie.

 

TR

Edited 19 November , 2019 by Terry_Reeves