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Remembered Today:

mindful45

L Cpl C A Robinson 3309

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mindful45

Whilst paying my respects today at Bowling Cemetery in Bradford to my ancestors I came across this, which I think is a little unusual. It is a CWGC grave for a C A Robinson who unfortunately died just 6 days after Armistice Day on the 17th November 1918. Now what struck me is that he was in the 30th Bn Australian Infantry - so he is buried a long way from home. Part of the Australian Imperial Force. As it is Remembrance Day tomorrow I thought I would post this here, with a photo of his headstone.

 

It would be great if we could find something out about this man, as his burial here seems quite poignant. Definitely not what I expected to find anyway. 

 

Mel

CplRobinson.jpg

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phsvm

Could I repectfully correct your comment?  It isn't 'Remembrance Day' tomorrow.  It's 'Remembrance Sunday'. 

 

'Remembrance Day' is, and always will be 11 November, whatever day of the week that falls.

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mindful45

Duly noted. Yes it is Armistice Day on the 11 November, I appreciate that. I shall be observing that on Monday. 

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mindful45

Many thanks for the link, so he died in Cullingworth which is outside the city, I wonder how he got there, or what were the circumstances in which he found himself there? Is it commonplace to find Australian or other foreign nationals buried in CWGC graves in the UK? - Ok, so I am also wondering if he has any surviving family and if they know whether he is buried here or not. It would be worth finding out. From the records he had a wife, Alice Robinson back in NSW. 

 

Mel

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phsvm

At a quick search the CWGC lists 2567 service personnel buried in the UK or commemorated on a UK memorial from WW1 who served with the Australian forces. All of whom, except about 200, are actual burials.

 

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david murdoch
1 hour ago, mindful45 said:

Many thanks for the link, so he died in Cullingworth which is outside the city, I wonder how he got there, or what were the circumstances in which he found himself there? Is it commonplace to find Australian or other foreign nationals buried in CWGC graves in the UK? - Ok, so I am also wondering if he has any surviving family and if they know whether he is buried here or not. It would be worth finding out. From the records he had a wife, Alice Robinson back in NSW. 

 

Mel

He was in hospital due to gun shot wounds both legs. On his service  records it notes he was wounded in action on 30/9/1918 and then several lines showing his path as a casualty back to UK hospitals. He was first admitted to Bath War Hospital.  It notes cause of death not stated. However further through his record is a typed letter to his wife which says he died of pneumonia/Influenza. As per the letter it hints he was possibly recuperating with relatives.

untitled.png

Edited by david murdoch

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Mark1959

He was wounded in action 30/9/18. But docs actually say died of influenza and pneumonia - so a victim of the Spanish flu pandemic it seems. Says in red just under the both legs statement. Very full history can be gained of his service from the docs.

Edited by Mark1959

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david murdoch
9 minutes ago, Mark1959 said:

He was wounded in action 30/9/18. But docs actually say died of influenza and pneumonia - so a victim of the Spanish flu pandemic it seems. Says in red just under the both legs statement. Very full history can be gained of his service from the docs.

So much information on that letter. Quick look on the records shows a lot of Robinsons in Cullingworth on the census. Though he was born in NSW, likely with relatives. 

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phsvm

If he was fighting off injury from gun shot wounds his immune system will have been compromised - probably not helped by bad or poor-nutrition for some time - so he would have sucumbed more easily than some to flu or pneumonia.

 

And as an aside I hope members of this forum have had their flu jabs this winter!

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david murdoch
22 hours ago, mindful45 said:

Whilst paying my respects today at Bowling Cemetery in Bradford to my ancestors I came across this, which I think is a little unusual. It is a CWGC grave for a C A Robinson who unfortunately died just 6 days after Armistice Day on the 17th November 1918. Now what struck me is that he was in the 30th Bn Australian Infantry - so he is buried a long way from home. Part of the Australian Imperial Force. As it is Remembrance Day tomorrow I thought I would post this here, with a photo of his headstone.

 

It would be great if we could find something out about this man, as his burial here seems quite poignant. Definitely not what I expected to find anyway. 

 

Mel

CplRobinson.jpg

Just looking at his CWGC entry there seems to be more of a story to this, as he was exhumed and reburied here only in 2009!. This appears to be a replacement stone as the inscription and information dates back to his wife in Australia - as per letters in his service file.

doc4388498.jpg

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phsvm

The 1911 census shows an Elizabeth Briggs (? the Mrs J Briggs mentioned in the letter) along with her daughters Mary, Ada and Hilda Peacock living at 7 Lodge Street, Cullingworth. 
 

He doesn't appear to have died alone, along way from his family.

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david murdoch

He's also listed on the Cullingworth war memorial. 

Edited by david murdoch

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Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

An unusual sequence of events.

Buried in a known grave in a methodist church graveyard at Cullingworth for 90 years, then exhumed and re-buried at Bradford Bowling Cemetery.

Am I right in thinking that the original church and graveyard have been built over and the graves moved elsewhere?

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david murdoch
42 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

An unusual sequence of events.

Buried in a known grave in a methodist church graveyard at Cullingworth for 90 years, then exhumed and re-buried at Bradford Bowling Cemetery.

Am I right in thinking that the original church and graveyard have been built over and the graves moved elsewhere?

I don't thinks so - just by Googling Cullingworth does not seem likely to happen. Also the Methodist church is still going strong by the looks of things. By the CWGC a new stone was authorised in 2000 and intended  for the cemetery in Cullingworth. It appears  this was erected at the original grave in 2001 probably as a replacement headstone then moved when he was re located in 2009. The inscription dates from Imperial War Graves Commission  times. His exhumation and reburial was authorised 3/11/2009. It's not like he was an "In from the cold" recently found. Maybe need to ask CWGC  what the story behind this is.

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Mark1959

Might get CWGC to correct his second name as well at the same time. His enlistment papers show Allan not Alexander

Edited by Mark1959

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Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

Any Cullingworth experts out there?

 

The old Wesleyan (Methodist) Chapel has indeed closed and is now private accommodation:

https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/WRY/Bingley/PhotoFrames/CullingworthExWesGeograph_APK

The current Methodist Church seen on Streetview doesn't seem to me to be more than about 30 years old.

The original CWGC grave entry stated that the cemetery was a short distance to the south-east of the chapel.

 

Church, chapel & cemetery shown on this old map from the 1930s:

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/print/#zoom=18&lat=53.8279&lon=-1.8976&layers=168&b=1

 

The cemetery as it looks today (and I  would suggest, not great...) on Streetview:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.8279488,-1.8950535,3a,75y,225.98h,86.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1smiFqz_g7d8dDjT2HIdD3GQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

There is another non-conformist chapel (Baptist) a short distance away, but the burial record clearly states Methodist (although admittedly handwritten and the  equally clear underlying  word "Wesleyan" has been deleted).

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mindful45

This is intriguing, I heard today from the WWI group in Bradford that he had been exhumed or re-interred, moved from Cullingworth to Bowling. Apparently Cullingworth has a history society so I have contacted them today to learn more and to ask if they know whether he has any living family members, ie anyone who may know he is buried here. I will let you know if I find anything out. My concern has been that he is not forgotten and/or that his family know where he is. Hence this posting etc.

 

So, it seems likely he was with family when he died? I am glad, it is a shame his wife was not there at the end, but then that was not uncommon in those times. 

 

There is an interesting story here too. 

 

Thanks for all the information you have unearthed, and the additional facts. 

Ps will contact the CWGC too....

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david murdoch

Given the information regarding the churchyard/cemetery in Cullingworth it seems more probable now that he was relocated in order for CWGC to care for the grave. Looking on their site there do not appear to have been any other war graves there.  On his service record his religion is given as "Pres" ie  Presbyterian. The original grave in the Wesleyan cemetery due to the plot there belonging to his aunt. Looking on Ancestry seems he was from a big family in Australia but with roods in Yorkshire. On his service record in the letters from his widow he married just days before he embarked  - in one letter she mentions having a child. Given that he also appears to have had quite a few relatives in Cullingworth  I'm sure he will have loving relatives in some form. The Ancestry family tree (presumably on the Australian side) I saw does not have a date/place of death for him - so can reach out to the keeper of this tree. Also I posted the photo of his headstone on the Find a Grave site. His parents headstone in Australia is on this site.

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mindful45

Ok guys, to let you know, I have contacted the CWGC re their error regarding his middle name. I have also asked for clarification regarding why he was moved from Cullingworth to Bowling.

 

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mindful45

I have heard from a nice man called Derek from the Cullingworth History Group, and he sent the following attachment which tells us a bit more about Colin. There is a photo on the attachment too for those who may be interested. He doesn't know if any relatives are still around in Cullingworth but is looking into this for me.

(Colin Robinson) (1).jpg

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Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

Thanks,

I don't suppose Derek knows the reason for the exhumation and re-burial?

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mindful45

Good question, I can always ask. I have contacted the CWGC and asked this question - just waiting for a reply. 

At the mo' Derek is contacting the author of the book (page attached to my earlier email) to ask if there may be any family members still around in the area. Waiting to hear back and then I will ask him for you.

 

Now, Colin was only married for 3 days, so it is unlikely he would have had children, but maybe there are other relatives in Australia as well, not that I have any idea if we could find them, but you never know.....I didn't think there would be this much info about him, so nothing is impossible.

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david murdoch
1 hour ago, mindful45 said:

Good question, I can always ask. I have contacted the CWGC and asked this question - just waiting for a reply. 

At the mo' Derek is contacting the author of the book (page attached to my earlier email) to ask if there may be any family members still around in the area. Waiting to hear back and then I will ask him for you.

 

Now, Colin was only married for 3 days, so it is unlikely he would have had children, but maybe there are other relatives in Australia as well, not that I have any idea if we could find them, but you never know.....I didn't think there would be this much info about him, so nothing is impossible.

I'd already been looking on the Australian archives for his wife and for a Robinson child born 1916. Now with a name and middle name finding him. Colin James Robinson died in 1939 in Armidale  NSW aged 23 from injuries due to being knocked down by a motor vehicle. His death record confirmed by his parents names  - this also gives his mothers middle name as being Matilda, and from the marriage record maiden name Edwards. I'm finding a record possibly for him in the Anglican Church records  being baptised 22/9/1915 Registered by his mother Alice Matilda Edwards, abode Deepwater. 

Edited by david murdoch

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mindful45

You are doing some stellar work here. Would Colin have had any siblings, or would Alice? That might be a way to find any living relatives....possibly....ie Colin may be someone's great or Gt-Great Uncle.....maybe....

 

Derek is still looking into finding relatives over here......no news to report on this so far....but it is early days.

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