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Remembered Today:

Remington P07 - 11-15


sgt-maj

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Last Saturday, as well as finding a Vickers P07, I also brought home a P07 Remington : 11-15 dated. What caught my eye initially, was the fact this P07 had no quillon, but also... no 'Clearance Hole'. The blade itself is in good condition, unsharpened, no pitting, but there are a few light stains in the last quarter towards the tip. Ricasso stamping on both sides are a mix of good, and light, but all are readable. The blade has been through '3' refurbs = 22, 24, 32... yet the clearance hole modification was never implemented.

 

The scabbard itself is sound, with the Locket and Chape having a very similar patina to the blade. Both the Locket and Chape are stamped 'RE' for Remington, so I am convinced that both the bayonet and scabbard have been together since manufacture.

 

I'm extremely pleased with this find, and it's now a part of my 'Remington' P07 family.

 

 

11-15.JPG

11-15a.JPG

11-15b.JPG

11-15c.JPG

11-15d.JPG

11-15e.JPG

11-15f.JPG

11-15g.JPG

Edited by sgt-maj
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Nice collection You have there, quillon was removed on P1907 already in 1913 or earlier, so why would have it on 1915 production, cleaning hole is 1918 configuration,when i remember correctly, so when not refurbished later, they dont have the cleaning hole. The first pictured piece was reworked 1924  and 1932 probably, but wout adding the cleaning hole.

Edited by AndyBsk
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Hello 'AndyBsk',

 

With your comments, I feel that you have not read my post properly, and you may have missed the point of my comments entirely. Please allow me to explain.

 

1) The removal of the Quillon or 'Hook' was not authorised until late October of 1913 by LOC : 16755 of 29th October 1913. 

2) The absence of a 'Clearance Hole' in connection to p1907 bayonets is generally associated with pre-LOC 116755 Quilloned examples.. thus... my comment : "What caught my eye

     initially, was the fact this P07 had no quillon, but also... no 'Clearance Hole'."

3) The 'Clearance Hole' is not a 1918 amendment as you mention, but was actually announced two years earlier by LOC : 17692 of 5th January 1916.

4) I did actually mention that this particular bayonet has x3 refurbish dates = 22, 24. 32.

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26 minutes ago, AndyBsk said:

Nice collection You have there, quillon was removed on P1907 already in 1913 or earlier, so why would have it on 1915 production, cleaning hole is 1918 configuraiton, so when not refurbished later, they dont have the cleaning hole. The first pictured piece was reworked 1924 probably.

 

Yes, the HQ went west on October 29, 1913, but the clearance hole was introduced on List of Changes for January 5, 1916.

 

Regards,

JMB

 

edit: You beat me to it.

Edited by JMB1943
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Yes, unusual to have post WW1 re-issue dates and not have the clearance hole drilled. The main user I have noticed that often did not drill the holes on bayonets still in service post WW1 was the Royal Navy, but these are N marked and do not have the same re-issue/inspection regime as far as I can see from observation.

Do the re-issue dates have the corresponding inspection stamps with crowns and numbers?

Cheers,

Tony

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1 hour ago, JMB1943 said:

...the clearance hole was introduced on List of Changes for January 5, 1916.

Hope sgt-maj doesn't mind me interjecting on seeing this info - Is my Remington unusual being an August 16 without a clearance hole?

20191109_194746.jpg

20191109_194751.jpg

Edited by depaor01
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Hi depaor01, that's a 1913 for the P14 rifle. None of them had clearance holes, though the Americans did introduce them on the 1917 version for their Model 1917 rifles.

Cheers,

Tony

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3 minutes ago, msdt said:

Hi depaor01, that's a 1913 for the P14 rifle. None of them had clearance holes, though the Americans did introduce them on the 1917 version for their Model 1917 rifles.

Cheers,

Tony

Brilliant! Thanks Tony. Didn't know that it was a P14 blade.

Dave

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'msdt'.... Yes... each refurb date has the corresponding inspectors stamping. This is standard practice.

 

'depaor01'... As has already been pointed out to you, the Pattern 1907, and Pattern 1913 bayonets, although using the same blade, are two entirely different bayonets developed to be used with two entirely different service rifles. The P07 for the British SMLE, and the P13 for the British P14. Your not the first, and I dare say that you will not be the last to mis-identify them both. However, this does illustrate as to why the original manufacturers placed two vertical grooves in the wooden grips of the Pattern 1913 bayonet, then carried it through to the American Model 1917.

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Thanks for clarification, yes my english is not so good. About 1918 clearing hole, i was in error, exist already on 1917 pieces with no refurbishment, anyway the cleaning hole is partly absent on part of 1916 production even on P1907 and P1913 ,so i assume the directive was not applied immediately. So Yours 1915 dated Remingtons i assume were refurbished and with this cleaning hole in pommels drilled later, interestingly the 3x time refurbished piece didnt get the hole in pommel.

Edited by AndyBsk
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Hi sgt-maj, just out of interest which establishments did the 3 inspections?

Cheers,

Tony

 

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'msdt'... I've since found that there are actually four refurb dates... 22, 24, 32, 35, which the attached pic illustrates. The corresponding inspectors stamping are in place, however, as can be seen, they are all in quite a jumble in the vicinity and over the 'Remington' stamping. Without a dedicated macro lens, it is quite difficult to determine the actual deatails.

Refurb year.JPG

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