" "E" Co. 4th Cheshires. Coedhelen Camp 1912 "

[GWF1967]

Hi,

 I have a couple of postcards of 4th Cheshires at Coedhelen Camp in 1912.  

Most of "E" Coy (Tranmere) look quite young; except for a knot of older men front -centre and the senior NCO's.  Many of the men are named; a few I'm having trouble tracing.  The exact positions of some in the group are not recorded, some names are written along the top edge of the card, others along the bottom. 

  The bareheaded chap at the back left is;

  Yeo. ?

7.from L.     Wilcox. - 4/260. Harold Ray Wilcox. - Captain Lancs. Fusiliers.   D. 13/2/19.   Greystones Cemetery. Redford. Eire.

 

8. L.          Dobson. 747. Thomas Ernest Dobson. - 2Lt. M.G.C.  D.o.W. 11/4/18. Etaples Military Cemetery. 

 

Back Row Centre.  Nutts.?    Name, or title for the cluster of young chaps?

 

8. from R.   D.A. Fox. - Douglas A. Fox. Sub Lt. R.N.D.

 

7. R.           Thomas. - 784. Pte. Walter Tempest Thomas.

 

                   Fleetwood. - 925. James John Fleetwood.  - Lt. Welsh Regiment.

 

                   Milne. - 956. Pte. Leslie Milne.

 

                   Casey. - 279 / 200031 Harold Hayden Casey.  - 2Lt. Somerset L.I.

 

2 From R.  Dunning. ?

 

Back Right.  Cowan. - 583.  Eric Tennant Cowan.   Commissioned 17th Lancers. - Transferred Lancs. Fusiliers.  M.I.D. O.B.E.

 

Mid Row, Seated, R.  Robinson. - 996. Pte. Stanley Robinson. Wounded Gallipoli 20/8/15.   or -  581. Andrew McGreggor Robinson. Lt/Capt. Cheshire Regt. 

 

Front R.   J.A. Fox. -  761. Pte. John A. Fox.  -  452374. Spr. Royal Engineers.

 

                Giles.  - 671. Pte. Albert Henley Giles.

 

                Morgan. - 752. Pte. Percy Morgan. 

 

Front-Centre.    J.Cowan. - 1806. Pte. John Cowan.  -  160821. - 363 Reserve Employment Coy. 

 

                 Parrott. - 131. Cpl. Thomas Towers Parrott.  K.I.A. 15/8/15. Gallipoli.

 

                 R.Merry. - 10. Pte. Robert Merry.  - 200001 South Lancs. Regt.  - 2Lt. Worcesters.

 

                Walton. - . 624. Pte. Herbert Walton. - 240035. Cpl. 

 

                H. Lloyd. - 168. Herbert Walker Lloyd. - 241916. - 2Lt. Cheshires.

 

                E.L. Jones. ?

 

Left Front.  Sgt. Warwick. -  112. C.Q.M.S.  William Robert St. Clair Warwick.  -  Lt. 4th Cheshires. D.o.W. 19/12/15.  Chatby Military Cemetery.

 

L. of Sgt. Warwick.   Kaye. A.G. - 200111. Pte. Arthur G. Kaye.  - 2Lt. Cheshires. -  Lt. R.F.C. / R.A.F.  ( Identified from another Postcard.)

 

Mid Row. L.    A. Robinson. -  429. Pte. Alexander Sumner Robinson.  D.o.W. Received at Gallipoli. 5/9/15.

 

2. from L.   Scarrott.  584. Cpl. Norman Scarrott.

 

3. L.  W.A. Jones. ?

 

 

Several men have surviving service records showing they came from Tranmere + Birkenhead, which offers possible candidates for my unknowns.

 

Yeo.   - 

Herbert Charles James Yeo. 2861. King's Liverpool. - Lt. M.G.C.   ( Later. Brigadier. O.C. 11th Tank Brigade.)  Aged. 20 in 1912. (B'Head).      

 

Samuel Henry Yeo. 24533. R.A.F. - Enlisted. 6/3/16. Aged 27 3/4. (B'Head)  - 

 

George Knowlson Yeo. -708. King's Liverpool Regt. - WT4/069784. A.S.C. Aged. 31  (B'Head).   

 

Nutts.?

 

Dunning.  - Charles Dunning. 1956. 15th London. (Civil Service Rifles.) D. 6/11/15.  

 

E.L. Jones.  A few possibles, no obvious Tranmere link. -  Evan Lewis. 37495. 18th Labour Battalion. Cheshires. - 33401. Labour Corps. - Aged 21.8 Mths.  1915. ( B. Montgomeryshire) 

 

W.A. Jones.  William Allen Jones. - 24733. 8th Battalion. K.i.A. 1916. Aged 21. ( C.1911. Runcorn.)

 

Any help with likely candidates or information linking any of my possibles would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

 

 

 

                  

 

 

                   

 

 

 

 

 

[GWF1967]

. "Pte. A.G. Kaye. "E" Co. (Tranmere)  4th Cheshire Regiment."   

Arthur G. Kaye. 200111. 1/4th Cheshires. - 2Lt. Cheshires. - R.F.C. -  Lt. R.A.F. 

[BillyH]

This would suggest that Arthur G. Kaye was from New Brighton in Wallasey (a good hike from Tranmere) :

 

BillyH.

[BillyH]

Photo of H.C.Yeo below, I'll leave it to you to decide if he is on your group shot!

 

BillyH.

 

 

[clive_hughes]

Just in passing, Coed Helen is just across the creek to the south-west of Caernarfon Castle. 

 

The Gwynedd Archives Service located in the town has amongst its holdings a 1912 brochure entitled "Snowdonia.  Territorial Camps at Caernarvon."  (accession number XM/490).  I can't remember whether it showed scenes from the camp sites locally, but it was intended to attract formations to hold their fortnight's annual camp in the area, thereby boosting the local economy! 

 

It probably built on its experience of having to host assorted troops in connection with the 1911 Investiture of the then Prince of Wales in the castle.

 

Clive

[GWF1967]

8 hours ago, BillyH said:

This would suggest that Arthur G. Kaye was from New Brighton in Wallasey (a good hike from Tranmere) :

 

BillyH.

Many thanks indeed for your help BillyH.

  C.1911 has him living in Liscard;  a little nearer.   Quite why he ended up in E coy when F+G Coys enlisted in Liscard is a mystery.

 

As for Mr Yeo -- I'd bet my life savings on him being a match; - and that's £20 I don't wager with lightly!

 

 

Edited 4 November , 2019 by GWF1967

[GWF1967]

3 hours ago, clive_hughes said:

Just in passing, Coed Helen is just across the creek to the south-west of Caernarfon Castle. 

 

The Gwynedd Archives Service located in the town has amongst its holdings a 1912 brochure entitled "Snowdonia.  Territorial Camps at Caernarvon."  (accession number XM/490).  I can't remember whether it showed scenes from the camp sites locally, but it was intended to attract formations to hold their fortnight's annual camp in the area, thereby boosting the local economy! 

 

It probably built on its experience of having to host assorted troops in connection with the 1911 Investiture of the then Prince of Wales in the castle.

 

Clive

Thanks Clive.

 I looked up the location of Coed Helen; now holiday campers. 

In 1910 and 1911 the 4th Cheshire were at Lovesgrove, Nr Aberystwyth. I spend the best part of a week every August working on the same fields the T.F. Camp covered.  -  yet to find owt!

 Guy.

[Pauline Monica]

My grandfather was George Knowlson Yeo.  I know he served in the war but all records were destroyed.  I didn't know he had anything to do with the army in 1912.  This is really interesting.  There is one person in the photo who  could be him , I'm not sure.  I'm getting in touch with my cousin to see what she thinks.  You say he was 31 but he was born in 1884 which would make him 28.  I do know he was in charge of the German prisoners on the Isle of Man.  He also served abroad and was promoted to Sergeant Where did you get your information about him? I do know some bits of information about his service from tales in the family but nothing  concrete.

      I was so pleased to see his name on your post.

                          Best wishes 

                                   Pauline

 

[BillyH]

16 hours ago, Pauline Monica said:

My grandfather was George Knowlson Yeo. 

I do know he was in charge of the German prisoners on the Isle of Man

 

From the Wallasey Chronicle dated 26.12.1914

Photo taken at Peel, Isle of Man

 

BillyH.

Edited 30 November , 2019 by BillyH
Date added

[FROGSMILE]

10 hours ago, BillyH said:

 

 

Photo taken at Peel, Isle of Man

 

BillyH.

Interesting that at that later stage he had elected (volunteered) to become a part of the National Reserve.  See the following from ‘Long Long Trail’:

 

1.  http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/enlisting-into-the-army/british-army-reserves-and-reservists/the-national-reserve/

 

2.  https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/enlisting-into-the-army/british-army-reserves-and-reservists/

Edited 30 November , 2019 by FROGSMILE

[GWF1967]

7 hours ago, Pauline Monica said:

My grandfather was George Knowlson Yeo.  I know he served in the war but all records were destroyed.  I didn't know he had anything to do with the army in 1912.  This is really interesting.  There is one person in the photo who  could be him , I'm not sure.  I'm getting in touch with my cousin to see what she thinks.  You say he was 31 but he was born in 1884 which would make him 28.  I do know he was in charge of the German prisoners on the Isle of Man.  He also served abroad and was promoted to Sergeant Where did you get your information about him? I do know some bits of information about his service from tales in the family but nothing  concrete.

      I was so pleased to see his name on your post.

                          Best wishes 

                                   Pauline

 

Hi Pauline,

 The man named Yeo in my original post has been positively identified as Herbert Charles James Yeo.

 

Your Grandfather has a few pages of surviving papers on Find My Past - https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBM%2FWO363-4%2F007302526%2F00537&parentid=GBM%2FWO363-4%2F7302526%2F58%2F537 . ( Indexed as George Kuowlson Yeo)

 

He enlisted as - Pte. 708,  5th Battalion Kings Liverpool Regiment on 18th October 1914, and transferred to the Army Service Corps on 30/3/1915.

His overseas service was from 1916 or later as Sgt. T4/069784.  A.S.C.

 Age on enlistment is given as 30 (1884), age on transfer to A.S.C, 31. 

He's recorded as being 5' 9" tall, weighed 164.lbs, and had a 39 1/2" chest - 42" inflated.

 

Edit. There are a few more papers if you search using T4/069784 showing he was sick from 11/1/1919 due to Malaria, and was discharged as 20% disabled on 27/3/1919

 

 

 

Edited 30 November , 2019 by GWF1967

[Pauline Monica]

I have never seen this photo of G.K.Yeo  Thank you so much.

[BillyH]

9 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Interesting that at that later stage he had elected (volunteered) to become a part of the National Reserve. 

 

I forgot to note that the newspapers photo was published on 26.12.1914, I have now added that date to post #9

 

BillyH.

Edited 30 November , 2019 by BillyH

[FROGSMILE]

6 hours ago, BillyH said:

 

I forgot to note that the newspapers photo was published on 26.12.1914, I have now added that date to post #9

 

BillyH.

Clearly he had quite a convoluted journey from pre-war TF, to National Reserve, to active service in France.  I wonder how many cap badges he wore altogether (Cheshire’s, King’s (Liverpool) and.....?).

Edited 30 November , 2019 by FROGSMILE

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Interesting to note that George Knowlson Yeo. had one of the uncommon W Prefix ASC numbers -  WT4/069784

This is sometimes said to imply membership of a 'Welsh' ASC .

I'm not sure this has been definitively shown, but am willing to stand corrected.

Number 69784 would have been allocated in April or early May 1915 according to Gardenerbill:

 

Edited 1 December , 2019 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[Pauline Monica]

G.K.Yeo is said to have transferred from Kings Liverpool  to ASC in March 1915.  I've only just found this out.    He defiantly  isn't Welsh.  The family  originated in Devon .  Yeo is a very old Devon name  

[Pollexfen]

I was looking at a random page from the Birkenhead News that was posted by someone else on Facebook and just out of interest was looking at the man with the unusual name of Thomas Parrott which via Google led me here. The benefit to me was this postcard which indentified Harold Ray Wilcox an Old Boy of my former school, Birkenhead Institute. I have researched all the Old Boys who fell in WW1 of which I have discovered 91 and written up their stories into a book which I hope to self publish this year. I have of course viewed Ray's file at Kew and there are a number of interesting aspects to his life. He was arguably the last of the Old Boys to die as a result of injury and illness sustained in the War. He married another Fallen Old Boy's sister and was the recipient of gunshot wounds on two separate occasions. He appears to have developed diabetes and after his return to Britain never saw action again, having to attend numerous medical boards. Despite the recommendations of the doctors he was never discharged and clearly, 'parked' in Ireland after hostilities where the effects of his service to his Country eventually overtook him.

He had served his Country well, having been a member of the 1st Cheshire Volunteers before the Haldane reforms created the 1/4th Cheshires. He attended many summer camps including that at Caernarfon (now I know that it was at Coed Helen). Despite all that the War Office denied his widow a disabled soldier's pension despite her (respectful) pleading. 

Would it be possible to get a high definition copy of the postcard to possibly use please?

 

Alun L Hughes