2nd Bn, Royal Warwickshire Regiment 18/19 December 1914 at Le Maisnil

[Matlock1418]

I have an abstract from the 2RWR War Diary for December 1914 - Incl. the attack 18 December on Le Maisnil - not a success

Also the uneasy truce the following day when casualties were recovered [or buried 'in-situ' it would seem]

• Seeking any other possible info please - Orders and Casualty lists etc. relating to the attack and truce etc.

In hope ... 

Edited 31 October , 2019 by Matlock1418

[PRC]

Hi - I take it you have already looked at the 22nd Brigade War Diary for the period - should be on Ancestry if you subscribe.

 

C.T Atkinsons The Seventh Division 1914-18 used to be available on line, but nows seems limited to a "search inside" on Google Books, which made some possible references, but as you only get about two lines it was next to impossible to get any context. Someone here may have it or it may be available through an intra-library loan.

 

The War Diary of the 2nd Queens has a basic typed transcription - no appendices but effectively sets out whats looks like the operational order of the day plus several mentions of the support given to the 2nd Royal Warwicks as well as the next days armistice.

http://qrrarchive.websds.net/PDF/QW00219141206.pdf

 

CWGC has 27 men of the 2nd Battalion killed on the 18th December 1914. Most are on the Ploegstreet Memorial, but the following have known graves and their CWGC webpage has a Concentration report.

Private J Pemberton https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/291786/pemberton,-/

Private Richard Fisher A Company https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/98877/fisher,-richard-william/

The Battalion Lieutenant Colonel, Robert Henry Watkin Lewis, is also in a known grave.

 

A search of a source like the British Newspaper Archive using the names of those who died might identify the relevant casualty lists which are also likely to include the names of the wounded.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

Edited 1 November , 2019 by PRC
Typo

[stiletto_33853]

No trace of the truce at Corps level, however this is the order, Description and casualties given at Corps Level (IV Corps) All images are from The National Archives and hence their copyright.

 

Edited 1 November , 2019 by stiletto_33853

[stiletto_33853]

[stiletto_33853]

[Chris_Baker]

See if you can find a copy of my book "The truce". It covers the attack and aftermath in detail. I've got a couple in stock if you can't find it elsewhere.

[Matlock1418]

PRC, Stilletto and Chris

Thanks for your swift replies - splendid stuff - much to digest.

Still looking ...

 

BTW: In the 7 Div orders para 3e refers to "The Cabbage Patch" - do you know where that was?

Is there a trench map or sketches of 2RWR area available for 1914 - the only one have found is 1:10k from 1915 of German trenches

[Matlock1418]

On 01/11/2019 at 00:01, PRC said:

I take it you have already looked at the 22nd Brigade War Diary for the period - should be on Ancestry if you subscribe.

I have limited experience [ability!] of accessing WD and only use Ancestry at my local library but on looking I couldn't find a 22 Bde WD for 1914, let alone Dec 1914

Or am I missing something?

[PRC]

1 hour ago, Matlock1418 said:

I have limited experience [ability!] of accessing WD and only use Ancestry at my local library but on looking I couldn't find a 22 Bde WD for 1914, let alone Dec 1914

 

I'm no expert either - have not had a paid for subscription in years and Norfolk County Library Service cancelled their subscription about three years ago, so the only time I use it is on free weekends. As a result I have to have an idiot cribsheet to remind me how to do it.

 

So in my War Diaries for Dummies mode, I start from the dataset UK, WW1 War Diairies (France, Belgium and Germany), 1914 - 1920, search page.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/ukwardiarieswwi/

 

Scroll Regiment or Unit in "Browse this Collection" to get to the required location  - in this case shown as "Various (Infantry Bridages, 7th Division) - their spelling, not mine

 

The second selection box, "Division" then becomes active and shows all the related pieces available - including those for 22nd Brigade.

 

Screenshot attached.

 

I'm sure there are more elegant ways of doing it, but it works for me.

 

Hope that helps and that there is something there of use to you.

 

Peter

Edited 2 November , 2019 by PRC
Add reference to Browse this Collection

[Matlock1418]

5 hours ago, PRC said:

War Diaries for Dummies

Thanks - my sort of guide!

[Matlock1418]

On 01/11/2019 at 00:01, PRC said:

The War Diary of the 2nd Queens has a basic typed transcription - no appendices but effectively sets out whats looks like the operational order of the day plus several mentions of the support given to the 2nd Royal Warwicks as well as the next days armistice.

http://qrrarchive.websds.net/PDF/QW00219141206.pdf

Don't suppose you can access the page previous to the one in the above link please [appendix p7 would be handy]

Do you know the names of the trenches the 2Q were relieved from on 15 Dec? [relieved by 2RWR] - because those trenches appear to be the ones from which 2RWR attacked on 18 Dec. [according to the 2RWR WD - but unfortunately un-named there]

I'm trying to pin down where the "RWR attacked form/to

[PRC]

3 hours ago, Matlock1418 said:

Don't suppose you can access the page previous to the one in the above link please [appendix p7 would be handy]

 

You get a "twofer" from this site http://qrrarchive.websds.net/menu1.aspx?li=1

Navigation is very, very simple - honest

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Matlock1418]

6 hours ago, PRC said:

You get a "twofer" from this site http://qrrarchive.websds.net/menu1.aspx?li=1

Navigation is very, very simple - honest

 

Thank you very much :-) - Yes it is. :-) :-)

The 2Q WD is much more graphic [and informative] than the 2RWR's for the days before and after 18 Dec = Horrid conditions before and after 18 Dec.!

Can't find a description other than "Trenches" on 14th - but, wait ... on ....

2 Dec "relieved 2 RWR. Our trenches are slightly EAST of LA BOUTILLERIE now"

8 Dec "took over trenches W of LA BOUTILLERIE occupied by WARWICKS"

18 Dec "the WARWCKS were ordered to attack enemy's lines in front of our right ? E of LA BOUTILLERIE". And "The Queens had to hold the Warwick trenches vacated by them on the E of WELL FARM ... take their places in the trenches of on the W of WELL FARM ..."

I know where LA BOUTILLERIE is = Exact centre of map sheet ref: 36.N.5 - I wonder where WELL FARM is ???

Edit: found WELL FARM = Exact centre of map sheet ref: 36.N.6  [c.1000yds due east of La Boutillerie] - later often referred to as WELL FARM SALIENT

Now approx.: 59 Rue des Breux, Le Maisnil

Edited 3 November , 2019 by Matlock1418
Edit = addition

[ianshuter]

Two more men to add to your list - both listed on Warwick War Memorial and All Saints Church at Warwick

Private 1619 2nd Bn RWR Thomas Woodhead - KIA 18 Dec 1914 - Ploegsteert Memorial

Private 6554 2nd Bn RWR Arthur Williams - KIA 19 Dec 1914 - Ploegsteert Memorial

Full details of both will be in this database either tonight or tomorrow https://www.swfhs.org.uk/index.php/war-memorial-transcriptions/new-master-index-of-the-fallen-of-ww1