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mindful45

Brothers - Sylvester and Arthur Dennison

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mindful45

Hi

 

More soldiers then - from my Paternal side now. My Great Grandfather Sylvester Dennison served in the Great War, I don't know much about him other than that he was in Egypt and the ship he was on in the Med was sunk. So I am searching for more information about him and his time in the war. He was born in 1894 and died in 1974. I think (from what I have researched) that he was in the Northumberland Fusiliers and the Hampshire Regiment with the numbers 52009 and 06160 respectively. Luckily for me he survived the war (or I wouldn't be sat here writing this). What he did during the war, the battles he was in, his experiences etc are all a complete mystery.

 

However, he also had a brother, Arthur (never heard of him either until he came up during ancestry research). Now their father was also called Sylvester, a Joiner I t think, they lived at 493 Bolton Road Bradford before the war. I have found records for who I assume to be Arthur Dennison, and it looks as if he were a private in the W Riding Regiment 3/12147, if this is correct he died in 1915. As I am currently unearthing previously forgotten soldiers, it would be great if I could learn more about him too. The more I look the more I find that there were many men in my family (on both sides) who fought, died and were never mentioned again. Trying to hear their voice if you like, or remember them. 

 

So, if anyone would like to help me with finding out more about these two then I would be very grateful. Oh will there be any more? Well so far I have found 8.….which is incredible.

 

Mel

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Milner

Says son of John and Phoebe, no mention of father being Sylvester

 

Private DENNISON, ARTHUR

Service Number 12147

Died 18/04/1915

Aged 36

2nd Bn.
Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment)

Son of John and Phoebe Dennison; husband of Hannah Clough (formerly Dennison), of 40, Mountain St., Windhill, Shipley, Yorks.

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sadbrewer
51 minutes ago, Milner said:

Says son of John and Phoebe, no mention of father being Sylvester

 

Private DENNISON, ARTHUR

Service Number 12147

Died 18/04/1915

Aged 36

2nd Bn.
Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment)

Son of John and Phoebe Dennison; husband of Hannah Clough (formerly Dennison), of 40, Mountain St., Windhill, Shipley, Yorks.

 

   A bit of gold dust in the British Newspaper Archive. 

Screenshot_20191030-130540.jpg

 

 

The poor bloke had a really rough time of it...it sounds like his nerves were shattered.

 

 

Screenshot_20191030-131022.jpg

Edited by sadbrewer

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sadbrewer

Maybe a lead in to Sylvester.....tbh there is so much in the British Newspaper Archive about the Shipley Dennison's ....quite a few other WW1 servicemen who may well be related....it would be well worth the subscription

Screenshot_20191030-133057.jpg

 

 

In 1953 a Sylvester Dennison is still at that address....had his house burgled in fact.

Edited by sadbrewer

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mindful45

Oh my goodness. Yes, it seems that the record I found for Arthur Dennison, son of John and Phoebe on Ancestry is not the right Arthur. SORRY.  I suppose this is a process of elimination, as I know next to nothing about him. Intrigued by what you have found about Sylvester Snr however, where did you find that? That is news to me. 

 

I don't know how hard it will be to find 'my' Arthur then, it seems all I have so far is this (see attached) and that is not much to go on is it? I shall have to see what I can find out - look through the other records on Ancestry.

ArthurDennison.jpg

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mindful45

Ps where did you find the article about the bankruptcy court - is there a link?

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Mark1959

You have the correct records for Arthur. 26006 crossed out 27107. Yorks. Looks though conscripted Feb 1916. Called up Feb 1916. To Reserves May 1916 and stayed in them until discharged Sept 1919.  Interestingly the attestation form says died 8/2/19 - before he was discharged. Indeed there is a Death Registration for a Arthur Dennison in Brdaford 1st Quarter 1919. Suffered from chronic Bronchitis and Asthma. Records suggest he had an attack with 2 weeks of being mobilised.

No overseas service.

Be careful - records mixed up with another man's.

It is noticable he weighed well under 8st (108lb) - about 49kg in today's money.

Baptism record shows born 18/3/1894

edit 

Given Silver War Badge see here when he appears to have already died. 

Edited by Mark1959

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mindful45

Aha, yes I have found his attestation form just this very minute. See attached. So we have found him. Interesting how his records got mixed up and how this indicates he died when he didn't! I assume he was not in the best of shape then to be an army reserve rather than in a service battalion?

ArthurDennisonshortservice.jpg

Edited by mindful45

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Mark1959

May be worth getting his death certificate from the GRO. £6 I think. This will show cause of death and confirm the deathis the correct one. Asthma etc may have seem him off or possibly was a victim of the Spanish Flu pandemic. His weakened state would not have give him much chance if the latter is true

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Mark1959

Sylvester

The Hants/ Northumberland Fus man has a pension card on the fold3 ancestry add-on. This shows he had a small pension from his discharge on 26/11/19 until mid 1922. The type of disability is not stated, The address is 94 Birkshall Lane, Bradford looking at post war electoral registers. From the mid 1920s a Florence Annie appears with the Sylvester at that address.

There are 1924 electoral records with a Sylvester at the Bolton Road address and 1925 records with Sylvester and Florence Annie at the Birkshall Lane Address.

There is a marriage Florence Anne Manning to a Sylvester Dennison in 2Q of 1916. I have found a marriage entry here that would suggest the father of the Birkshall Lane man was Tom and therefore not your relative. This would mean the Hants/Northumberland you have identified is incorrect. The marriage shows the incorrect Sylvester was born 1894/5

Unfortunately if you or other forum members agree we need to look elsswhere.

Sorry!!

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MaxD

Apart from the pension card, there is also the medal record you have for older brother Sylvester (the only one for that name) in the Northumberland Fusiliers and the Hampshire Regiment.  The medal roll entry puts him in 2/7th Battalion NF who, after duty in UK, sailed for Egypt in January 1917 as a garrison battalion so that adds up.  There were battalions of the Hampshire Regiment in Egypt so he may have transferred there.

 

Max

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Mark1959

Not sure what to make of it. Jury is out

I think the problem is to do with the parents

If her relation was born 1894 then his father looks to me to have been Tom. This is the Hants/NF man

Sylvester the brother of Arthur and son of Sylvester was born in 1882,

 

Edited by Mark1959

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sadbrewer
2 hours ago, Mark1959 said:

Not sure what to make of it. Jury is out

I think the problem is to do with the parents

If her relation was born 1894 then his father looks to me to have been Tom. This is the Hants/NF man

Sylvester the brother of Arthur and son of Sylvester was born in 1882,

 

 

Just to muddy the waters.....a Sylvester Dennison b 1894, Occupation Wool comber, enlisted in Bradford in the York's Light Infantry. No 42584. 

Date of enlistment 22 Nov _ (that is how it is shown)

Deserted from Middlesborough on 3rd February 1917.

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Mark1959

Sadbrewer. Noted that as well. This is going to take a lot of sorting out!!

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mindful45

Wow, well - I do know that Sylvester married Florence Annie Manning in 1916, she was my Great Grandmother. Hmmmm - Tom - never heard of him.....intriguing. Florence is also the name of my Great Aunt (named after her Mum). Florence Annie died apparently, when my Grandad was 12, so Sylvester was left to bring up his children by himself. And yes I think he was a woolcomber, as far as I know he met Florence working in the mill. No idea if that helps looking at this puzzle above.  Oh and yes I believe Sylvester was born in 1894. He died in 1974 apparently. 

 

In 1939 he is a tram cleaner living in Dick Lane with his children Jack (my Grandad), Harry and Florence. 

 

I shall explore this mystery further, ie who this Tom could have been. Hmmmm…….

 

The Dennisons are seeped in mystery, however, from what you are uncovering here I am not surprised. ;)

 

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mindful45

Ps the tale that I heard, that my Grandad told us is that Sylvester was in Egypt and did not return home until around 1921 or 2. This has always puzzled us, seeing as the war ended in 1918, what was he doing there (if this is true). And that he was on a ship that was sunk in the Med......so, there is definitely a mystery here...which of these two men you mention could he be? 

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mindful45

Ok, looking at the marriage certificate that you posted here - this appears to be the Sylvester that we are looking for. So he is not related to Arthur and Sylvester Snr then. Well that is Ancestry for you (or the dangers of it when you don't know the name of ancestors etc, seems I alighted on the wrong one!!! d'oh!).  This is the Hants/NF man then like you say, whilst he was a woolcomber,  the Middlesborough link is likely to be another chap..... 

 

Sorry for the confusion, there is a lesson in that I am sure. 

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MaxD

The death of a Sylvester Dennison in 1974 (Q1 1974 Bradford reg district) gives date of birth 15 July 1894 so that adds up.  There is only one Sylvester Dennison birth registered anywhere between 1880 and 1900 - Q 3 1894 Bradford.

 

The age of the Sylvester who appears in 1911, 1901 and 1891 with father Sylvester and brother Arthur is consistently recorded (28, 18, 8) 

 

On 30/10/2019 at 16:20, Mark1959 said:

Sylvester the brother of Arthur and son of Sylvester was born in 1882,

 

Yes the "father Tom" on the marriage cert is strange, this Sylvester in also born 1894.

 

 

Max

Edited by MaxD
Clarity

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sadbrewer
2 hours ago, mindful45 said:

Ps the tale that I heard, that my Grandad told us is that Sylvester was in Egypt and did not return home until around 1921 or 2. This has always puzzled us, seeing as the war ended in 1918, what was he doing there (if this is true). And that he was on a ship that was sunk in the Med......so, there is definitely a mystery here...which of these two men you mention could he be? 

 

I'm not saying it's wrong...but taking my family as an example...I've been contacting all my relatives about the family history and the stories vary widely. One cousin said our Grandfather was wounded on the battlefield after going over the top...somehow  evaded capture and spent the next two years living with a French family behind enemy lines....god knows how that story developed but he was actually in a Divisional Ammunition Supply Column, wounded, gassed and eventually invalided out in 1917...so take what you hear with a pinch of salt until hard evidence proves otherwise.

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mindful45

It could simply be that 1) I found records for Sylvester Dennison at Forces War Records, which are for the NF and Hamps regiments, 52009 and 06160. However I did not have any other details. So using Ancestry I found a Sylvester Dennison in Bradford with father Sylvester and mother Mary Ann. These were the potentials that the site sometimes brings up. Not knowing that his father may be Tom or Thomas I must have simply assumed that the records on Ancestry were correct, and that he was named after his Dad. Hence the mix up, possibly easily done unless you have a very unusual name - can find thousands on there with similar or identical names. Seeing this marriage certificate today I realise that this was incorrect. So thanks for sorting this one out , or else I would still be looking at a different family, as would you! 

 

I agree - check everything, don't take what you hear, ie family stories seriously or for granted. Sometimes they are embroidered or the facts get changed, like you say. Thanks for sharing, that was a good example. 

 

Mel

 

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mindful45

So far when I look on Ancestry I find very little, it seems the records for the Sylvester Dennison who lived down Bolton Road Bradford, whose parents were Sylvester and Mary Ann seem to come up over and over, but not much on the one who married Florence Manning. Interesting. Also, I wonder why on the marriage certificate this Sylvester has a father recorded as Tom and not Thomas, as you would expect. Now there was a rumour that he may have been illegitimate, and I have no idea if there is any truth to that, but it makes me wonder, looking at that - with the claim he is deceased. Was Tom simply a made up name or a cover? Then there are the witnesses, it is odd how neither has the name Manning or Dennison - perhaps I am reading too much into this, but it does seem mysterious.

 

I think I need to find a birth certificate, then at least I will know his mother's name and it may help with this search.  

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mindful45

Ok, here is the 1939 Census and this is the Sylvester I am looking for. There is a mistake on ancestry as every family tree has mixed up these two Sylvesters - so my family, with Jack, Harry and Florence living on Dick Lane in 1939 are mixed up with Sylvester and Mary Corner - wrongly. How this has happened I have no idea, and how to rectify this is a moot point. The plot thickens. This is turning into a bit of a mystery.....

1939censusJackDennison.jpg

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sadbrewer

Hi Mindful....this is certainly intriguing but I have a feeling we're either missing a trick somewhere or there is an error in the records that is throwing us off the scent.

 

Can I just ask...are you now absolutely certain that the 493 Bolton Rd, Dennison's are not the ones you are looking for?

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