Sgt Stripes Posted 30 October , 2019 Share Posted 30 October , 2019 Hi. Is it possible for artillery shells to rotate in the air and land in the ground base first thus not exploding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 30 October , 2019 Share Posted 30 October , 2019 (edited) If something very wrong happened in flight such as the fuse becoming detached, the driving band stripping off or the body failing in some other way. Could be that badly made shell would be prone to that sort of failure. Possible also that shell found base first that had not exploded had tumbled after they arrived. Max PS The technique, now not used, of firing shell vertically experimentally to test or prove fuses (which had no explosive component) was designed to allow the shell to land base first in order to recover he fuse for inspection. Edited 30 October , 2019 by MaxD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 30 October , 2019 Share Posted 30 October , 2019 (edited) It is possible that the loss of rifling due to ware from extended/excessive use of the gun could also cause the shell not to spin sufficiently and therefore to 'tumble' [It is the spin imposed upon the shell by the rifling in the gun's barrel that keeps it stable in flight.] Edited 30 October , 2019 by michaeldr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Hall Posted 30 October , 2019 Share Posted 30 October , 2019 Any pointed projectile will tumble in flight. Thats why shells have driving bands to 1/ provide a gas tight seal and 2/ to form lands in the rifleing of the barrel. The spiral grooves impart a spin on the projectile which gives stability in flight and prevents tumbling. ( Modern smoothbore guns, like the Rheinmettal 120mm and mortars fire rounds that are fin stablized to prevent this). Standard artillery shells have to be spun because (and forgive me this was a long time ago) it's something to do with their centre of pressure being infront of their centre of mass. If a gun barrel was worn out due to over use and the driving bands couldn't "lock" in the grooves (Or as MaxD suggests were damaged) The rounds wouldn't spin and thus could perform somersaults in the air. An unfortunate combination of the number of driving bands the length of the shell, v. shell weight v. size of charge can also impart tumbling. https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=B3QmAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA368&lpg=PA368&dq=artillery+shells+tumbling&source=bl&ots=_AkPMcSYkB&sig=ACfU3U3AvhKHV6I7mahaCOCN5V16bjGwHQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiFvN2J88PlAhUZi1wKHTURDh4Q6AEwDHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=artillery shells tumbling&f=false Apologies to michaeldr who beat me to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 30 October , 2019 Share Posted 30 October , 2019 2 minutes ago, Gunner Hall said: Apologies to michaeldr who beat me to it. No problem GH Thanks for the link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 30 October , 2019 Share Posted 30 October , 2019 It should be noted that the US Field Artillery Journal cited is describing the design of projectiles where tumbling was noted with certain design characteristics which would then be changed for the final design. There has to have been some malfunction for a service projectile to tumble in flight. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Hall Posted 30 October , 2019 Share Posted 30 October , 2019 32 minutes ago, MaxD said: It should be noted that the US Field Artillery Journal cited is describing the design of projectiles where tumbling was noted with certain design characteristics which would then be changed for the final design. There has to have been some malfunction for a service projectile to tumble in flight. Max Indeed. the link was given as it was the only thing i could find that backed my assertion that shells can tumble. You are right of course there has to be something materally wrong for a service projectile to act in this way. Barrel wear is the most likely culprit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 30 October , 2019 Share Posted 30 October , 2019 The subject of tumbling shells cropped up in this old thread - see post 33> Post 46 mentions a ref which I am unable to confirm, but which may prove useful if you have access "Details of the stripping bands and the shells tumbling can be found on page 33 BOMBARDMENT, in the Official History France and Belguim 1915." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 30 October , 2019 Share Posted 30 October , 2019 The Official History ref is here: https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.210676/page/n101 Here the main reference is to shell falling short as a consequence of barrel wear and faulty ammunition but footnote 3 points precisely to stripping of the driving band. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Stripes Posted 30 October , 2019 Author Share Posted 30 October , 2019 Thank you all for the great information that you have posted . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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