Jump to content
Great War Forum

Remembered Today:

bmbab

Any experts in Indian Army List abbreviations please

Recommended Posts

bmbab

I have found a very useful online source of the Quarterly Indian Army lists at archive.org and have been tracking the career history of a particular officer who served after the Great War in the King Edward's Own Gurkha Rifles.  In 1921 his entry in the Army list is followed by;  Attd. Lv., ex I. 8m 6 Apl 21.

Can anyone explain the Lv and exI please. Could the 8m be 8 months? but for what?

 

Any help gratefully received

 

Alan

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kimberley John Lindsay

Dear Alan,

Your KEO Gurkha Rifles officer was on Leave, out of India for 8 months from 6 April 1921.

That sounds like a so-called Long Leave, during which time officers usually went "Home" to UK, and often became engaged to marry, for example...

Do you hold the Gurkha officer's medals?

Kindest regards,

Kim.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Maureene

Attd is probably Attached, which I would assume means either he is officially in another Indian Army Regiment, or more likely that he is still officially  British Army, and he is attached to the Indian Army for a limited period.

 

This is the page from the Indian Army List for July 1921

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.284991/page/n1007

 

Cheers

Maureen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bmbab

Thanks to Kim and Maureen

 

I do not have the medals of this officer. I'm researching him as part of our village's web site on those who served during WW1. He was a member of the Rifle Brigade but then joined the Indian Army around Jan 1918 before making his career in The Indian Army. So far I have tracked his career details through to 1925 but from a quick look it seems he may have stayed with the Indian Army until around 1943 rising to the rank of LtCol.

 

Your answers make sense and I've also come across another Lv Ex-I notation for another year (that time for a year). I don't think he ever married but given the length of his army career I can imagine he must have returned to the UK for some significant periods.

 

I would really like to find what WW2 medals he was awarded.  I also don't know where he was buried - I don't have a worldwide Ancestry membership but there is an indication he may have died in India around 1946-ish

 

Anyway as usual thanks to forum members for your great help, speedily delivered.

 

Many thanks

 

Alan

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kimberley John Lindsay

Dear Alan,

...and his name...?

Kindest regards,

Kim.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bmbab

Dear Kim

 

Sorry missed this key information - Arthur Leslie Donaldson b 1893. Unfortunately there is another Arthur Leslie Donaldson born around the same time and it makes disentangling their stories quite difficult.

 

Alan

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kimberley John Lindsay

Dear Alan,

Ah, I see that he was wounded in France, and served on the NW Frontier in 1918. Afghanistan NWF 1919, and Waziristan 1919-20. 

Major A. L. Donaldson was a Station Staff Officer in 1928, and Adjutant, Auxiliary Forces India, Dec 1939 to Jul 1940.

Kindest regards,

Kim.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ddycher

Alan

 

Arthur Leslie Donaldson from Newton Abbot ? If so I may be able to help.

 

  • Donaldson, Arthur Leslie (No W.O. ref as yet)
    • Born in Newton Abbott
      • 10th May 1893
    • Father : Thomas William Donaldson, Solicitor
    • Mother : Ethel Laura Frewer
    • Educated at :
      • Newton College (TBD~TBD)
    • Family :
      • Brothers :
        • Eric Lockwood Donaldson (2 years older)
        • John Henry Lockwood Donaldson (13 years younger)
      • Sisters :
        • Marjorie Donaldson (6 years younger)
        • Married Phyliss Mary Turner in Bedford, England
          • December 1926
    • Military :
      • 5th Devons
        • Gazetted as joining the 5th Devons as a 2nd Lieut.
          • 15th June 1912
        • Joined E Coy at Newton Abbot.
        • Service records show him serving with E Coy at Newton Abbot.
        • Gazetted to Lieut.
          • 5th August 1914
        • Army List shows him still on the 5th Devon est’b in January 1915. But by now thought to have been with the Rifle Bde.
          • He is not on the 5th Devons est’b for November 1916.
      • 13th Rifle Bde
        • Gazetted to temp. Lieut in a TBD Service Bn
          • 29th September 1914
 
Task : Thought to be his transfer to the 13th Rifle Bde who were a service battalion formed in the October. Known to be in the Rifle Bde as early as December 1914. See : www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1915/1915%20-%200026.html
 
Task : This now thought to be at the 13th Bn., Rifle Bde which was being formed at Winchester at this time as part of K3. MIC (copy on file) shows him as a  temp. Lieut and Lieut with the 13th Bn Rifle Bde. Initially sec’d and still shown on the 5th Devons est’b in January 1915. When did he actually transfer ? Western Times has him “transferring to another unit to get to the front“. Now thought that he was promoted to Lieut in D Coy in August 1914. D Coy at that time thought to have been a double company. However it embarked for India as a single company. Current thinking is that he was earmarked to remain behind with the 2/5th Devons and this drove his request for transfer. Explore further.
 
Explore 13th Rifle Bde. Initially attached as Army Troops to 21st Division the 13 th Bn moved in November 1914 to billets in High Wycombe. It then moved to Andover in April 1915 and transferred to 111th Brigade in 37th Division. Went to France with the 37th Division on 31st July 1915.
Awarded the Royal Aero Club Aviator Certificate having taken the test on a Maurice Farman Biplane at Netheravon Flying School, Netheravon.
26th December 1914
 
Task : Aero Club Certificate (copy on file) shows him a Lieut in the Rifle Bde. Explore further.
 
    • Went to France
      • 29th July 1915
 
Task : Currently thought to have gone to France with the 13th Bn., Rfle Bde. 13th Bn. The Rifle Brigade, along with other units of the 111th Brigade, 37th Division was on attachment to the 34th Division from 6 Jul '16 - 22 Aug '16. However, from the War Record of the 13th Bn. The Rifle Brigade 1916, I have:
July.' On the 6th moved to Albert on the Ancre and was in reserve to 56th Infantry Brigade to which it was temporarily attached' Served in France and Flanders until the Armistice.
 
Task : Alternitively his embarkation dates tie to 8th or 9th Bn but he is not listed on embarkation nor on the Army List for 1916 for either battalion. Explore further.
 
    • Wounded with 13th Rifle Bde and invalided to the UK. Reports stating he was "slightly wounded".
      • TBD November 1916
      • General List
        • Gazetted as a temp. Lieut to ADC and to the General List.
          • 12th February 1917
 
Task : Who did he serve as an ADC to ? The 13th Rifle Bde was in the 111th bde of the 37th Division. Its training at Cholderton in Hampshire proceeded rapidly, and the 37th Division moved to Saint-Omer in in July 1915, months earlier than other divisions of the fourth and fifth New Armies.
 
The 37th Division, forming part of VII Corps of , played no part in the diversionary attack on Gommecourtstaged by VII Corps on 1 July 1916 during the first day on the Somme. The perceived poor performance of some New Army divisions in the fighting, and the heavy losses suffered by the 34th Division, led to changes in the organisation of the 37th Division in the first half of July. The 111th and 112th Brigades were loaned to the 34th Division from 6 July to 22 August to replace the 102nd and 103rd Brigades. While under command of 34th Division the brigades took part in the Battle of Bazentin Ridge and the Battle of Pozières.
The division took part in the Battle of the Ancre , the final stage of the Battle of the Somme, under the command of V Corps and Fifth Army in November 1916. By this time Lord Gleichen had left the division and his replacement, Major-General Scrase-Dickens, had fallen sick. Now under the command of Major-General Bruce-Williams, who would command the division for the rest of the war, 37th Division's brigades once again saw action under the command of other divisions rather than as a division.
The division participated in the first three phases of the 1917 Battle of Arras, capturing the village of Monchy-le-Preux during the First Battle of the Scarpe. A monument to the division stands at Monchy. 37th Division fought in the Third Battle of Ypres, under the command of IX Corps of Second Army , taking part in the battles of the Menin Road, Polygon Wood, Broodseinde, Poelcappelle, first and second Passchendaele in September, October and November 1917.
Explore further.
 
  • Gazetted as relinquishing his staff position as A.D.C whilst seconded from the Rifle Bde.
    • 26th September 1917
  • 2/2nd Gurkha Rifles
    • Application for commission in the Indian Army is held at National Archives under :
      • IOR/L/MIL/9/464/192-202 [n.d.]
    • Gazetted as being a Capt in the Rifle Bde accepted into the Indian Army on probation with the rank of Lieut. ranking from 5th May 1916
      • 22nd January 1918
    • Joined the 2/2nd Gurkha Rifles
      • 22nd January 1918
    • Gazetted as att’d to 2nd Gurkha Rifles and to Act’g Capt. whilst commanding a Coy.
      • 31st July 1918
  • 112th Infantry
    • Gazetted as confirmed in the Indian Army
      • 22nd January 1919
    • January 1919 Indian Army List shows him a probationary officer of the Indian Army attached to the 112th Infantry.
    • Gazetted to Capt in the Indian Army
      • 5th May 1919
      • Gazetted to Major in the Indian Army
        • 3rd May 1933
    • Gazetted as a Major transfd. To the Special Unempld. List (Indian Army) :—
      • 1st Nov. 1935.
    • Major in India
      • July 1936
    • Gazetted as a Maj. (Ty. Lt.-Col). In 69 I.A. being promoted to Lt.-Col.
      • 5th March 1945.
      • Gazette shows him as a Lt Col. In the Indian Army in 1946.
      • Gazetted as retiring from the (69th ) Indian Army.
        • 12th June 1947
  • Others
    • Solicitor articled to B. D. Webster, of Newton Abbot
    • Cricket and Rugby player at Newton Abbot .
    • Newton Abbot Football Club and Devon County three quarter.
  • Last known address :
    • 20 College Road, Southfield, Newton Abbot , (Parents address 1911~1919)
  • Died :
    • TBD 1967
 

Kim - another where our paths cross ?

 

regards

Dave 

Edited by ddycher

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kimberley John Lindsay

Dear Dave,

Brilliantly researched!

Kindest regards,

Kim.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kimberley John Lindsay

Dear alf mcm,

I have neither FMP nor Ancestry, but likewise: brilliantly researched!

Kindest regards,

Kim.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
stiletto_33853

The only Donaldson listed in the 13th RB was A. R. although I have seen wrong initials placed in these  Nominal Rolls of Officers who served with battalions before, especially when they are not of the RB. Dates might fit. Unfortunately I do not have his file on my hard drives.

 

Andy 

DSC00235.JPG

Edited by stiletto_33853

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
stiletto_33853

No reference in the Green Jackets Chronicle re. his death. Although this is hardly a shock given that he was not with the RB for very long.

 

Andy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MBrockway
On 30/10/2019 at 10:09, alf mcm said:

He married Phyllis Mary Turner in 1926, according to the Bedfordshire Times. https://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0000749%2f19261112%2f227&stringtohighlight=arthur leslie donaldson

 

Regards,

 

Alf McM

 

Also reported in The Times, Wednesday, November 10, 1926, p.1

 

canvas.jpg.21622e839d44f38bb8b09733d0368da0.jpg

© Times Newspapers Limited.

 

The same notice appeared in the 11 Nov issue.

 

Mark

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MBrockway

This appears to be his death ...

108680931_ProbateCalendar.jpg.58eb1e4b5789163c7691fe8698e6d99c.jpg

 

No obit in The Times that I could find.

 

 

Arthur and Phyllis DONALDSON appear on the First Class passenger list of the SS Tuscania,  residents of India, embarked Bombay and landed Liverpool 30 Apr 1935.  The entry also lists three children, which may help with further researches ...

 

329582285_TuscaniaPassengerManifest.jpg.3f91bc22dfe82fb56c401da7ab0caad0.jpg

 

Ages are in the right hand columns.

 

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MBrockway
On 24/10/2019 at 00:41, Kimberley John Lindsay said:

Dear Alan,

Your KEO Gurkha Rifles officer was on Leave, out of India for 8 months from 6 April 1921.

That sounds like a so-called Long Leave, during which time officers usually went "Home" to UK, and often became engaged to marry, for example...

Do you hold the Gurkha officer's medals?

Kindest regards,

Kim.

 

A Captain AL Donaldson, Indian Army, 28 yrs old, appears on the First Class passenger list of the SS City of London, embarked Bombay and arrived Liverpool on 13 May 1921.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ddycher

As far as I can see there is only one ref to him in the Sirmoor Rifles history. It states he led a company in the action at Girni on 4th June 1919. No other ref's I could see at a glance.

 

regards

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ddycher

The only photo I have yet found of Arthur Donaldson. This from 1937.

 

1667888262_ArthurLeslieDonaldson.png.8d7a3c2bfd8185a2c2643e84d831fd84.png

 

Regards

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bmbab

Many thanks to everyone who has provided information and thoughts.

 

to ddycher can I ask the source of the photo please, and thanks - the collinghamanddistrictwararchive.info site is the one I am researching for and posting results of the researches.

 

Thanks again to all -

 

Alan

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...