Help with RNAS and RAF record

[rflint]

Arthur William Champion was at Roehampton which I believe a kite balloon base and training centre. He was based there from 12 Mar 1918 to 16 Apr 1918. When he was transferred to the RAF on the 1 Apr 1918 he was made a Sgt mech. I assume he was maintaining the booloons rather than training to fly them. What is meant by Departure Authority PT2/14/1 and Unit No1 B.S. Medn on his transfer from Roehampton. Previous to Roehampton his records only mention President II(Crystal Palace) which I know to be an accounting base. However I have found some information that there was HMS Victory VI also known as HMS Crystal Palace which was a Naval training centre. Is it likely that he was based here? Also on the medical board what does A3/34894 stand for.? I have the found the following do you think this may be relevant? (a) Factor ‘Air - A’. (1) A1 - Fit for flying duties without restriction. (2) A2- Fit for flying duties but has sub-optimal hearing or eyesight. (3) A3- Fit for limited flying duties. (4) A4- Fit to be flown in a passenger aircraft. (5) A5- Unfit to be taken into the air. (6) A6- Air assessment not currently required.

.

 

Edited 22 October , 2019 by rflint
removing duplicate text and addition query

[horatio2]

HMS PRESIDENT II was the Central Pay Office for the RNAS in Haymarket, London from July 1915. HMS CRYSTAL PALACE was the recruit training depot for (among others) RNAS ratings. Arthur Champion seems to have spent an exceptionally long time there - well over two years - during which time he was advanced to Leading Mechanic and Petty Officer. His trade classification in both services was Airship Rigger.  See - http://www.rafmuseumstoryvault.org.uk/archive/champion-a.w

[rflint]

Thanks for the info. Why would you think he was there so long. Do you think he was possibly a trainer?

[horatio2]

As a Petty Officer he was probably on the training staff. I assume you have noted his previous RN service as Boy Seaman, Ordinary Seaman and Able Seaman from 1905 - 1913, when he purchased his early discharge from a 12-year engagement. If not, here is his record for that period - https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6738003

The £6 purchase fee was refunded after he joined the RNAS.

Edited 22 October , 2019 by horatio2

[rflint]

I knew that he was in the Navy and his great granddaughter had said that she had been told that he bought out of the Navy to look after his ill mother. But did not know that his Navy record existed. Thanks very much for your help again. Here are pictures in his Navy uniform and RNAS uniform

[rflint]

@horatio2

Thanks again. I have taken a look at his previous records which have him on a number of ships including HMS Cochrane in 1911 which accounts for the Delhi Durbar medal that he recieved along with the British and Victory medals. He wasn't on the Medal role but there is a comment saying that it doesn’t contain the roll for HMS Medina & accompanying ships.

 

The King and Queen set sail from Southampton on 11th November 1911 escorted by a Royal Navy “Special Service” squadron and landed in Bombay on 2nd December. They reached Delhi on 7th December and then began ten days of daily festivities and spectacle .

The Durbar medals were also given to some of the Royal Navy and Royal Marine personnel aboard the detached squadron which conveyed the King and Queen to and from India – HMS Medina, Cochrane, Argyll, Defence, and Natal – and many of these were personally presented by the King at a ceremony aboard HMS Medina in 1912 after his return to England.

[horatio2]

Interesting. According to the Admiralty Medal Roll (ADM 171/98 at Kew) he did not qualify for the Victory Medal, just the BWM which was issued to him by the Air Ministry.

[rflint]

I wonder how he came by that one then

[RaySearching]

Is his name inscribed on the rim of the victory medal ?

 

Ray

[rflint]

I will have to ask his great granddaughter who I am helping out, but really enjoying the journey. He was my granddad's cousin so still related but not a direct line.

[hmsk212]

4 hours ago, horatio2 said:

Interesting. According to the Admiralty Medal Roll (ADM 171/98 at Kew) he did not qualify for the Victory Medal, just the BWM which was issued to him by the Air Ministry.

 

His RAF Record shows that the War & Victory Medals were issued by the RAF. He had served in Bizerta from 16th April 1918.

 

Here is a helpful link re the Balloons at Bizerta  :- www.philafrica.be/MAGHREBOPHILA/articles/6-parren-bizerte%20kite.pdf

 

Steve

Edited 22 October , 2019 by hmsk212

[rflint]

@hmsk212

Thanks very much for the information

I had thought that Medn probably stood for Mediterranean. However I can't see where it says about the Victory medal and serving at Bizerta on the RAF record I have attached.

[horatio2]

I stand to be corrected but I thought that No.1 Kite Balloon Base was on Malta. If that is the case, Malta was not a 'Theatre of War' for the purposes of qualification for the Victory Medal. I cannot see medal awards on the Air 79 record either.

[rflint]

I found this on another topic on this forum

 

Balloon Bases were in the UK and Med and operated by the RNAS. The Balloon Units in France were initially operated by the RNAS, but taken over by the RFC in 1915. The French units were known as Kite Balloon Sections, 2 of which generally comprised a Balloon Company, which in turn were organized as Balloon Wings.

By 1918 there were at least 25 Bases in the UK and Med, as far as I can tell comprising:

1 Malta

2 Alexandria

3 Brindisi

4 Corfu

5 Gibraltar

6 Bizerta

7 Lowestoft

8 Immingham

9 Milford Haven

10 Tyne

11 Mudros

12 Shotley

13 Rathmullan (Lough Swilly)

14 Hythe

15 Tipnor Portsmouth

16 Merifield (Plymouth)

17 Berehaven

18 North Queensferry

19 Houton Bay (Orkney)

20 Caldale (Orkney)

21 Grimista (Lerwick)

22 Port Said

23 Milo

24 Genoa

25 HMS Canning

 

The standard establishment of the Bases, in terms of men and equipment are detailed in AIR 1/2131/207/115/7 and AIR 1/1714/204/123/128

There is a nominal roll of Balloon Officers and men in AIR 1/447/15/303/40

and a file on Balloon bases as part of Home and AA defence in AIR 1/609/16/15/271

 

 

•  

Edited 23 October , 2019 by rflint
Remove irrelevant info

[horatio2]

This seems to confirm Malta - http://www.philafrica.be/MAGHREBOPHILA/articles/6-parren-bizerte kite.pdf

[rflint]

@horato2 thanks again. I have asked his great granddaughter if she can find out what is on side of medal. 

[rflint]

Having managed to avoid going to a theatre of war probably saved his life. He was luckier than his brother William John Champion who was on HMS Invisible and died at the Battle of Jutland and his cousin James Champion (my great uncle) who 1St Bn. Cold Stream guards and died from wounds in Le Treport

[horatio2]

20 hours ago, horatio2 said:

His trade classification in both services was Airship Rigger. 

Or, more accurately, "Rigger (Lighter than Air)" - abbreviated to "RL" on his AIR 79 RAF record.

21 minutes ago, rflint said:

William John Champion who was on HMS Invisible

Not quite - HMS INVINCIBLE!

In case you do not have both his Kew records, here they are:-

ADM 159 - https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7852221

ADM 157 - https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C16324336

[horatio2]

The trio of medals of his brother, William John (RMLI), were claimed by and issued to their father. I wonder if the Victory Medal came from a muddling of their medals..

[rflint]

Thanks again. Shame the ship was not invisible! I do not have his navy records, it is possible I have the roll card somewhere as I have only just come back to researching my tree and lot of my stuff on an old computer.

[horatio2]

20 hours ago, rflint said:

He wasn't on the Medal role but there is a comment saying that it doesn’t contain the roll for HMS Medina & accompanying ships.

He is on the Durbar Medal Roll (ADM 171/61) "235299 - A. Champion - A.B. - Cochrane - Guard of Honour, Delhi"  Link here - -  https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C975031   and scroll through to page 347 of 772 in the image viewer.

[rflint]

I found the section that said navy and saw that comment so didn't look any further. Thank you again.

[hmsk212]

6 hours ago, rflint said:

@hmsk212

Thanks very much for the information

I had thought that Medn probably stood for Mediterranean. However I can't see where it says about the Victory medal and serving at Bizerta on the RAF record I have attached.

That is because you have only posted the front of his service record and not the other side which mentions the Victory Medal and Bizerta. Plus the date for leaving for the Med is exactly the same (as per the link I mentioned ) as the 70 men going to Bizerta. I think that the only problem is that it appears that 1 Balloon Section was put on his service record by mistake instead of 6 Balloon Section. Probably due to the fact that the RNAS section had very recently changed to RAF

 

Steve

Edited 23 October , 2019 by hmsk212

[rflint]

Silly me just gone back in and didn't notice an arrow at edge of screen which if you hover over you get next related image! Have the second page now. 

[rflint]

Thanks very much everyone for your help.

 

The remaining question I have now is on the medical board and transfer to reserve what does A3/34894 stand for.? I have the found the following do you think this may be relevant? (a) Factor ‘Air - A’. (1) A1 - Fit for flying duties without restriction. (2) A2- Fit for flying duties but has sub-optimal hearing or eyesight. (3) A3- Fit for limited flying duties. (4) A4- Fit to be flown in a passenger aircraft. (5) A5- Unfit to be taken into the air. (6) A6- Air assessment not currently required.