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Remembered Today:

What's in a number? - Rifle Brigade


Jim Strawbridge

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I have a large, random (not really random, but that is a different story) listing of rifleman who served in WW1 with the Rifle Brigade. In list form, by service number. it is noticeable that there is loosely an alphabetical/numerical theme which suggests that either there was a renumbering exercise or that new recruits were somehow given service numbers roughly in sequence to their surname position in the alphabet. This seems to only apply where there is no prefix to the service number as I cannot see the same where prefixs apply. Here is what I have found :-

 

1 - 100   Ax4, Bx7, Cx2, Dx2, Hx3, Jx2, M, P, R, S

101 - 200  A, Bx6, Cx4, Ex2, Gx2, Hx5, Lx2, M, Px2, Sx3, T 

201 - 300  Ax2, Bx10, Cx11, G, K, Mx2, Rx2, S, Tx4, Wx2

301 - 400  B, Cx7, Dx4, Ex3, Fx2, Gx2, Hx5, J, L, M, P, W

401 - 500  A, Bx3, C, Dx2, E, Fx2, Gx4, Hx2, Jx2, Mx2, N, P, S, Tx2, W

501 - 600  Bx4, Fx2, Gx3, Hx9, J, Kx2, Mx4, P, R

601 - 700  B, Dx2, F, H, Jx3, Kx4, Lx3, Mx3, Nx2, Px2, Sx3, Tx2, W 

701 - 800  Bx2, Cx2, D, F. G, Hx2, L, M, Nx3, Px2, Rx3, Sx5, Wx2

801 - 900  C, D, F, Gx3, Hx2, K, M, P, Rx4, Sx12, Tx4, Wx7

901 - 1000  B, D, E, G, Hx2, R. Sx6, Tx4, Vx2, Wx8  

 

The letters are the first letter of the surnames. Can anyone explain what happened that the Rifle Brigade service numbering had such a pronounced bias towards an alphabetical listing?

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Regimental numbers were supposed to be issued serially, but given the particular nature of the Rifle Brigade it is not impossible that they took on recruits in very large batches (such as the Kitchener and Pals battalions) and that, on each such list, the names were put into alphabetical order before the numbers were allotted.

 

Ron

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Jim, you have to watch the RB numbering. The TF battalions until the 1917 renumbering had lowish numbers per battalion, i.e. 555 in 18th, 19th, 20th, 21st, 22nd, 23rd & 24th and run somewhat in an alphabetical order on occasion. The 25th was founded later than the other TF battalions and these battalions had very very little to do with the Rifle Brigade having been decided by the Director of Personnel in late 1915 to either go to the Guards, KRRC or RB. The RB was selected but they were managed by the London Territorials with a separate pay office to the RB. I have seen many people fall foul of this numbering thinking they were low number.

The only number sequence that can be said to run anywhere near alphabetically is the Z Prefix, with a lot of brothers/relations put into the Z Prefix numbering, but there are huge discrepancies to blow the alphabetical listing to pieces as with the TF battalions.

The only rolls that run alphabetically are 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th but their is a huge number spread between each entry.

example attachments are from parts of my spreadsheets covering regular numbers from WW1, there are huge gaps in this also with men having left before the war etc.

 

Screen Shot 2019-10-16 at 23.06.54.png

Screen Shot 2019-10-16 at 23.07.19.png

Edited by stiletto_33853
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quote  -  "The only number sequence that can be said to run anywhere near alphabetically is the Z Prefix"

 

My random "Z" prefixes bear no resemblance to an alphabetical listing by surname.

1 - 100  B, D, M, P

101 - 200  -

201 - 300  C, H, M, R

301 - 400  Dx2, Wx2

401 - 500  B, P

501 - 600  H, N

601 - 700  S, T

701 - 800  C, F, J, R

801 - 900  A, G, S

901 - 1000  R, V

 

I know that this is a very small sample but the names are well spread. Ron's answer seems plausable. None of the prefixed service numbers show anything like being issued alphabetically according to surname. But the opening table definitely shows the trend where there is not a prefix. I suppose that a helpful exercise would be to check the underlying names that I have used to see if they are in batches of Kitchener or Pals Battalions or some other reason such as Hyde Park enlistments.

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Hi Jim,

Well I can only speak from experience, in the 10th, 11th  & 12th or 20th Division battalions there are fairly good groupings not alphabetically but area wise. There are even examples of a number block being issued twice (early S) with simply a 1 placed in front of one of the blocks of 3 figure numbers to remedy the situation. The 7th, 8th & 9th RB along with the 7th, 8th & 9th KRRC were given their numbers at the depot sent and off to join their battalions. There are many references to such with the 9th KRRC Intelligence officer and the C.O. of the 9th RB explaining that all the raw new officers had to do was allot a certain amount of men to each company as they were numbered up already. The 8th RB for example was vastly over subscribed and in Sept/Oct 14 had to be split to complete the 11th. Certain officers stating that they went on to drill commanding a company of the 8th to return to find his company and himself were now in the 11th. They in the majority came from three areas, Birmingham, Manchester and the East End of London with a slight majority from the Brummie area, according to the Adjutant of the time the mixture of dialects were a delight.

There is very little evidence from scanning medal rolls until I am blue in the face and attempting to find the missing numbers from them that they were not alphabetically put together at all, but grouping from areas, for example the B prefix, primarily used for the 14th Division ran over a period of 3 to 4 weeks arriving at Winchester on one day to be sent straight to their battalions the same or next day making it somewhat difficult to adhere to any sort of alphabetical plan given the numbers in early recruitment, confirmed by medal rolls. Similarly the numbers without a prefix would gradually enlist, where their records survive I have detailed their enlistment dates, Column 4 on all these lists, which more or less all go along the line as in 11 (Nightingale) enlisted 13/12/03, 20 (Simpson) on 8/1/04 etc once again making alphabetical listing difficult. It was as and when they enlisted, Smith one day, Brown the next day and so on. This attachment is from Z prefix, note the mass all enlisting on the same day all from the same area.

 

Andy

 

Screen Shot 2019-10-17 at 00.52.07.png

Edited by stiletto_33853
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If we look at the 1st RB 1914 Star Rolls (Alphabetical) and the BMW/VM Rolls (Number) you can see quite a large difference alphabetical to numbers.

Screen Shot 2019-10-17 at 01.49.37.png

Screen Shot 2019-10-17 at 01.45.59.png

Edited by stiletto_33853
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Stiletto_ 33853, I appreciate that you are an authority on the Rifle Brigade and I am sending a message direct as to how my "sample" was arrived at. Perhaps you can see some other reason why my sample appears to have a leaning towards alphabetical names.

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Jim,

Would love to see your example and go over it, compare it to spreadsheets etc to see if we can come up with a positive answer.

 

Andy

Edited by stiletto_33853
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