Thankful Village. David Roberts.D. O. W.

[roselyn2]

I was researching 59843  David Roberts Welsh Regiment. D. O. W. 4. 9. 1918.  From Llanfinagle Y Crenddyn . When I was looking for a Memorial for that village I was surprised to find that it was a Thankful Village. Am I correct that Pte. Roberts was from that village ?.  Thank you.   Lyn

[Mark1959]

A quick look certainly seem to suggest that he was resident in the village in 1901 and 1911. So not that thankful. Worth some checking tomorrow before we spoil the village myth.

[PRC]

Soldiers Died in the Great War records that he was born Llanfihangle-Y-Crenddyn, Cards, resident Nantagredig, Carm. and enlisted Carmarthen.

 

He is remembered on the War Memorial at Nantgaredig and a website covering the names on the memorial adds:-

David was born at Penfordd, New Cross, in the Parish of Llanfihangel-y-Creuddyn on 24 November 1892, the son of William and Sarah Roberts. He married Margaret Ellen Evans, of Cilcennin, while he was working as a farm hand at Llanfarian on 30 April 1915 and lived at Soar, Cilcennin where their two children were born. In 1917 the family moved to Cross Hands, Nantgaredig and David worked as a collier at Tumble. He enlisted at Carmarthen into the 3rd Battalion, Welsh Regiment on 16 May 1917

https://www.wwwmp.co.uk/carmarthenshire-memorials/nantgaredig-war-memorial/

 

Starting to sound like he had moved away by the time he joined up.

 

You have to remember War Memorials were privately organised and funded. It was up to each local commitee to decide the criteria for inclusion \ what form an appropriate memorial would take, etc. A glimpse of local papers from the post-war period shows a wide variety of approaches - a nearby town to where I lived had three different committees fighting each other for the right  to build a Civic Memorial and doing a great deal of mud-slinging in the process. Elsewhere plans for hospitals, playing fields and working mens libraries had to be scaled back for shortage of funds. In some villages that meant no memorial ended up being put in place at all. An absense of a memorial has then sometimes been mistakenly taken as a sign that this was a Thankfull village.

 

Add to that the nominations came usually from those still living locally. If there were no surviving local family then there may simply no-one to put his name forward.

 

Then you have the committee itself as to how scrupulous they were. You don't have to research many memorials before you come across one where a significant minority seem to have no permament connection to the place. In other places even where an individual seems to have had a perfectly valid claim to be included but weren't because they were listed elsewhere.

 

Finally there was the family itself. They may not have wanted the dead soldier to be remembered - there is a court case in Norfolk where the father smashed the memorial at its unveiling. And then you have the contribution side. I suspect there may have been in some places an expectation that a name on the memorial required a donation.

 

So in Llanfinagle Y Crenddyn it may have been a perfect storm. At a time when elsewhere a committee may have formed to consider plans for a memorial, gather cash and collect names, David Roberts may no longer have been considered local, there may have been no one local to put forward his name, there may have been no committee formed to organise a memorial and no incentive to do so as there were no names to put on it. A family could be faced with either paying for a memorial in more than one place, particularly one they may never see, or choosing the location with the least cost.

 

A check of local contemporary newspapers may give some insight into how the process panned out at Llanfinagle Y Crendd.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

[roselyn2]

Thank you both for your interest. I can see from my local memorials that names are missing. Some others casualties names are on more than one War Memorials.    Lyn.

[Diggler]

There's an interesting page about Llanfihangel-y-Creuddyn on Steve John's website about this: https://www.wwwmp.co.uk/ceredigion-memorials/llanfihangel-y-creuddyn-a-thankful-village/

 

And another 'Thankful Village', at Herbrandston, Pembrokeshire: https://www.wwwmp.co.uk/pembrokeshire-memorials/herbrandston-a-thankful-village/

 

Edited 11 May , 2020 by Diggler

[sadbrewer]

The casualty list shows him as being from Cardiff.

Courtesy of the British Newspaper Archive. 

 

 

 

 

[corisande]

59 minutes ago, sadbrewer said:

The casualty list shows him as being from Cardiff.

 

I may  be wrong, but my understanding would mean that Cardiff was where he enlisted, rather than his home/birthplace.

[sadbrewer]

22 minutes ago, corisande said:

 

I may  be wrong, but my understanding would mean that Cardiff was where he enlisted, rather than his home/birthplace.

 I agree it could be, but often it's the place of current residence, it can be a bit of a minefield tbh.

[PRC]

My understanding is that in the casualty lists the place shown is the address of next of kin - it's only the place of enlistment if there is no next of kin stated in the army records. I've attached a crop of the front page of a War Office Weekly Casualty List, (from the National Library of Scotland website) which sets out the general rules -

 

"In the lists of Warrant officers, Non-commissioned Officers and Men, the town shown against each Soldier's name is the home of his next of kin, except where followed by the abbreviation "Enlt" when it is his place of enlistment.

The rank is that of Private except where otherwise shown"

 

Knowing that has certainly helped me over the years with trying to establish how an individual may have come to be remembered on a war memorial when all the evidence seems to point to no connection - until that is the town shown in the casualty lists gets you to start looking at married sisters and maternal grandparents

 

Hope that helps,

Peter