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Skipman

Help find pension card/ledger entries

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Skipman

Edit Have since found (6) John Munro

 

I'm researching mainly the 66 men named on the Aberfeldy War Memorial and am now looking for pension cards/ledger entries. I have found 46 and am having trouble finding these ones. It's quite possible there are no existing records for these men but would appreciate any help in finding any more of them and links to the entries on Fold 3, or Ancestry.. There may be no entries for Officers, Canadian soldiers or Naval servicemen?

 

(1) Pte 120 John McInnes, 1st Black Watch KIA 26/10/1914 Born April 1884 Aberfeldy

(2) L/Cpl S/4262 Robert McDougall, 9th Black Watch KIA 25/9/1915 of Aberfeldy born Glasgow October 1881

(3) Pte 1971 John Kennedy 1/1st Fife and Forfar Yeomanry. KIA 31/10/1915 Gallipoli. Lived Bridge of Earn before war Born Aberfeldy, February 1895

(4) Cpl 941 Peter McNie 2nd Black Watch, DOW 23/2/1916 Mesopotamia. Born Auchterarder April 1890

(5) Pte 1895 Duncan Alexander Irvine 1/6th Black Watch KIA 3/6/1916 Born Aberfeldy June, 1891.

(6) Pte S/15971 John Munro 6th Cameron Highlanders (Att 45th T.M.B.) KIA 27/6/1916. Born Aberfeldy October, 1889.

(7) Pte S/3750 John Robertson 11th A & SH, KIA 31/8/1916 Born Aberfeldy, October, 1881. Lived Falkirk and Penicuik before war.

(8) Pte 439201 Hugh Douglas 52nd Battalion, CEF. KIA 16/12/1916. Born Kingussie, August, 1878. Lived Aberfeldy then Canada.

(9) Lieutenant David Clark Grieve 13th Battalion, CEF. KIA 9/4/1917. Born October, 1890, Aberfeldy. Lived Canada

(10) Gunner 152415 James Murray McKenzie 161st SB, RGA, KIA 29/10/1917. Born April 1889 Grandtully, near Aberfeldy.

(11) Engineer Lieutenant Alexander Thomson McGregor H.M.S. Stephen Furness KIA 13/12/1917 Born October 1880, Conon Bridge, near Invergordon.

(12) Pte 1521 (265267) James Atholl Forbes 1/6th Black Watch, KIA 23/12/1917 Born December, 1897. Beith, Ayrshire.

(13) Lieutenant Robert Henry Haydn Smallwood 4th Northumberland Fusiliers. KIA 27/5/1918 Born October, 1894, Clackmannan-shire, lived Newcastle and Aberfeldy.

(14) Captain Alexander MacGregor 28th Battalion CEF KIA 9/8/1918 Born February 1887, Aberfeldy.

(15) Captain Malcolm Colquhoun MacLaren 7th Leicesters, KIA 23/10/1918, Born September, 1891, Edinburgh. Lived Aberfeldy.

(16) Pte 639112 Charles McKenzie Campbell 38th Battalion, CEF. Died 18/1/1919, Canada. Born November, 1894, Weem by Aberfeldy.

(17) Pte 438737 Alexander McNaughton 52nd Battalion, CEF, died 1/4/1919, Canada. Born January 1882, Logierait.

(18) Pte 63702 Alexander Farquhar McKinnon. West Yorkshire Regiment died 25/3/1920 at Aberfeldy. Born November 1899, Kenmore near Aberfeldy.

(19) Pte 9220 Archibald Campbell 1st and 8th Black Watch  Died 6/3/1921. Born November 1882, Blair Atholl.

(20) Pte 59788 Duncan McCallum R.A.M.C. Died 21/6/1921 Born October 1887, Glenyon, Fortingall.

 

Mike

Edited by Skipman

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David Tattersfield

For the men from the black watch, if you have tried the regimental search on Fold3, you may want to try "royal Highlanders" instead of "black watch". 

 

The WFA's records so far published are ncos and men, no officers but do include naval (and airforce) pension claims 

 

Also, none of the cef men will have records in the WFA's pension records 

Edited by David Tattersfield

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Skipman

Many thanks again David. Will give Royal Highlanders a go,

 

I have seen a couple of Canadian entries for example Click  Click

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

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rolt968

Sometimes less is more in the Pension Card searches. I have tried various combinations of surname, number, placename (where the relatives might be living), unit, even dependent's name. As far as I can see the use of Royal Highlanders or Black Watch is not consistent. Also the use of serial number prefixes is not consistent.

 

Having said all that I found a second card for one of my men yesterday when I was sure that I had exhausted all possibilities for him. Alas a lot of the ledgers referenced by the cards I have found have not survived.

 

RM

 

Edit: When we have all searched for sometime it might be useful to know for what fraction of the men who died we find cards or ledger entries.

Edited by rolt968

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David Tattersfield
1 hour ago, Skipman said:

I have seen a couple of Canadian entries for example Click  Click

 

 

Wow. Thanks for that. This is a surprise, but I suppose that for every 'rule' there's an exception. This is useful. Thanks for highlighting the anomaly here. 

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David Tattersfield
1 hour ago, rolt968 said:

Alas a lot of the ledgers referenced by the cards I have found have not survived.

 

Yes, there was thinning of the ledgers. See here for those ledgers that have 'gone west'. 

http://www.westernfrontassociation.com/world-war-i-articles/how-to-use-the-browse-function-on-fold3/

(scroll to the end of the article and see 'Appendix') 

1 hour ago, rolt968 said:

Edit: When we have all searched for sometime it might be useful to know for what fraction of the men who died we find cards or ledger entries.

Yes, a scientific analysis would be good. I'd love to attract academic interest in these for a 'full' study and analysis. PhD anyone???

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Skipman
1 hour ago, David Tattersfield said:

 

Wow. Thanks for that. This is a surprise, but I suppose that for every 'rule' there's an exception. This is useful. Thanks for highlighting the anomaly here. 

 

There also seem to be some Australian entries Pte 1055 Sydney Spiller

 

CWGC

 

Mike

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David Tattersfield
18 minutes ago, Skipman said:

There also seem to be some Australian entries Pte 1055 Sydney Spiller

 

Brilliant. Keep 'em coming.

 

His card is here

 

Fold3 link

 

or here if you are viewing via the WFA library


WFA Library edition

 

 

 

Edited by David Tattersfield

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rolt968
3 hours ago, David Tattersfield said:

 

Yes, there was thinning of the ledgers. See here for those ledgers that have 'gone west'. 

http://www.westernfrontassociation.com/world-war-i-articles/how-to-use-the-browse-function-on-fold3/

(scroll to the end of the article and see 'Appendix') 

Yes, a scientific analysis would be good. I'd love to attract academic interest in these for a 'full' study and analysis. PhD anyone???

 I noticed the section about ledger numbers which may never have been used. When  I have ploughed my way through the cards for the 100-150 men whom I am researching I will send you a summary of the ledger numbers in the missing ranges which I know did exist.

RM

Edited by rolt968

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rolt968

I forgot to add two other points about searches:

I don't think the use of TF serial numbers is consistent - four figure numbers or later six figure numbers.

Also, I don't think that sometimes where two or more brothers appear on a card all the serial numbers are indexed.

 

Thanks for the hints about Canadians and Australians. I will check mine.

RM

Edited by rolt968

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David Tattersfield

Thanks. There's a small set of ledgers which I still don't understand which seem to be for Scottish claims. They are numbered differently to other pensions. There's not many but this is potentially another curiosity. 

 

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ss002d6252
29 minutes ago, David Tattersfield said:

Thanks. There's a small set of ledgers which I still don't understand which seem to be for Scottish claims. They are numbered differently to other pensions. There's not many but this is potentially another curiosity. 

 

Plenty of little mysteries coming out !

 

Craig

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alf mcm

A search for 'South African' on Fold 3, via WFA gives over 300 results!

 

Regards,

 

Alf McM

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alf mcm

  I have just been browsing through the widow's pension records searching under 'Bangour' as a keyword, and came across Patrick Grimes. One image is shown for him, but a small note at the bottom right of the image says '8 pages'. These 8 pages cover records for another 3 'Patrick Grimes' {front and back - different regiments}. I got the same results using 'Bangour' as a place.

  If you search for 'Patrick Grimes' as a name only you will get these 4 front cards appearing seperately as images.

  I mention this in case anyone searching under keyword or place only misses the fact that there may not just be one card for the names mentioned.

 

Regards,

 

Alf McM

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David Tattersfield
12 hours ago, alf mcm said:

  I have just been browsing through the widow's pension records searching under 'Bangour' as a keyword, and came across Patrick Grimes. One image is shown for him, but a small note at the bottom right of the image says '8 pages'. These 8 pages cover records for another 3 'Patrick Grimes' {front and back - different regiments}. I got the same results using 'Bangour' as a place.

  If you search for 'Patrick Grimes' as a name only you will get these 4 front cards appearing seperately as images.

  I mention this in case anyone searching under keyword or place only misses the fact that there may not just be one card for the names mentioned.

 

Regards,

 

Alf McM

You are absolutely correct, and is something that I have been pondering. It's not really obvious if this comes up as a result of a search. I will probably cover this in another video guide. 

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David Tattersfield
13 hours ago, alf mcm said:

A search for 'South African' on Fold 3, via WFA gives over 300 results!

 

Regards,

 

Alf McM

It's nearer 700 if you search 1st sa inf (and 2nd, 3rd and 4th). Lots of other variants bring up south Africa results. This will form part of an article I'm working on. 

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ss002d6252

From what I can see the SA cards for all for the Overseas Expeditionary Force men.

 

image.png

https://www.westernfrontassociation.com:2061/image/669069769?terms=1019,african,south

image.png

https://www.westernfrontassociation.com:2061/image/669091139?terms=1019,african,south

 

They were not technically a force of the SA government as they were raised for specific overseas services to the War Office and so they sometimes seem to have been paid under British rules and sometimes under SA rules. Certainly, for pay, in 1918 the men were given the choice of drawing British Pay if more favourable for them.

Craig

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David Tattersfield
21 hours ago, alf mcm said:

  I have just been browsing through the widow's pension records searching under 'Bangour' as a keyword, and came across Patrick Grimes. One image is shown for him, but a small note at the bottom right of the image says '8 pages'. These 8 pages cover records for another 3 'Patrick Grimes' {front and back - different regiments}. I got the same results using 'Bangour' as a place.

  If you search for 'Patrick Grimes' as a name only you will get these 4 front cards appearing seperately as images.

  I mention this in case anyone searching under keyword or place only misses the fact that there may not just be one card for the names mentioned.

 

Regards,

 

Alf McM

 

To assist members, I've done a further video guide. This is on the WFA's web site HERE (the new video I'm referring to is the 4th one down entitled 'Help with searching WFA Pension Records'

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David Tattersfield
On 09/10/2019 at 18:49, alf mcm said:

A search for 'South African' on Fold 3, via WFA gives over 300 results!

 

Regards,

 

Alf McM

See article here about non-UK pension records within the WFA's archive.

 

Pension Records for 'non-UK' soldiers

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alf mcm

Thanks David,

  The article is extremely interesting.

 

Regards,

 

Alf McM

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rolt968

An excellent article.

 

It looks as if there are cards for some men of the Indian Volunteer Artillery.

I have found a dependent's card for Bdr Alexander Napier Christison, 17, Indian Volunteer Artillery (Rangoon)

RM

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David Tattersfield
14 hours ago, rolt968 said:

It looks as if there are cards for some men of the Indian Volunteer Artillery.

I have found a dependent's card for Bdr Alexander Napier Christison, 17, Indian Volunteer Artillery (Rangoon)

Thanks for this. I'll have a dig around ! It's fascinating to see the 'exotic' units here !!!

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ss002d6252
Maureene
1 hour ago, ss002d6252 said:

Another of the little units that the War Office seems to have inherited.
 

Burma Mechanical/Motor Transport

Calcutta Volunteers


Craig

 

I can't see the links above, as I am not a WFA member.

 

There is a FIBIS Fibiwki page Burma Mechanical Transport Companies, RASC, researched by Noel Clark, a member of the GWF

https://wiki.fibis.org/w/Burma_Mechanical_Transport_Companies,_RASC

 

Calcutta Volunteers could apply to a few groups, but they were generally regarded as part of the Indian Army. Sometimes it just meant that the person had been a member of the Calcutta Volunteers pre WW1, even though he was serving with another regiment during the war

 

There were also a group known as the Calcutta Volunteer Battery, which could be simply called Calcutta Volunteers. Being Artillery they were strictly speaking Royal Artillery, which was part of the British Army, but they also seem to have been simultaneously regarded as Indian Army.

 

Cheers

Maureen

 

 

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ss002d6252
9 minutes ago, Maureene said:

 

I can't see the links above, as I am not a WFA member.

 

There is a FIBIS Fibiwki page Burma Mechanical Transport Companies, RASC, researched by Noel Clark, a member of the GWF

https://wiki.fibis.org/w/Burma_Mechanical_Transport_Companies,_RASC

 

Calcutta Volunteers could apply to a few groups, but they were generally regarded as part of the Indian Army. Sometimes it just meant that the person had been a member of the Calcutta Volunteers pre WW1, even though he was serving with another regiment during the war

 

There were also a group known as the Calcutta Volunteer Battery, which could be simply called Calcutta Volunteers. Being Artillery they were strictly speaking Royal Artillery, which was part of the British Army, but they also seem to have been simultaneously regarded as Indian Army.

 

Cheers

Maureen

 

 

If you have access to Fold3 then you can still access links anyone posts for the WFA version (it just requires a little tweaking). This should work...
 

If the link is https://www.westernfrontassociation.com:2061/search?keywords=volunteer&general.title.id=1019:UK,+WWI+Pension+Ledgers+and+Index+Cards,+1914-1923 then take the bit from search onwards, so copy search?keywords=volunteer&general.title.id=1019:UK,+WWI+Pension+Ledgers+and+Index+Cards,+1914-1923 and then, on the Fold3 page, paste it in to the address bar to replace anything in that url after   https://www.fold3.com/ .

So in this example you would end up with 
www.fold3.com/search?keywords=volunteer&general.title.id=1019:UK,+WWI+Pension+Ledgers+and+Index+Cards,+1914-1923

Craig

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