josquin Posted 7 October , 2019 Share Posted 7 October , 2019 (edited) Sub-Lt. Horace William Owen, RNVR & RFC (pilot) and Pte. Nolan (observer), 52 Squadron, went missing on 28 March 1917. Owen was later reported as a prisoner, eventually repatriated, and a casualty card exists for him at the RAF Museum. No casualty card exists for Sjt. Nolan, however; only a listing in the Air 1 file stating that Pte. Nolan of 52 Squadron was missing on 28 March 1917. The listing does not state Pte. Nolan's forenames or initials, nor does it give his RFC/Army service number. I request any available information about Pte. Nolan, such as the entry for Owen and Nolan in Trevor Henshaw's "The Sky Their Battlefield II" or from the Squadron Record Book for 52 Squadron. Any assistance will be appreciated greatly. Regards, Josquin Edited 8 October , 2019 by josquin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmsk212 Posted 7 October , 2019 Share Posted 7 October , 2019 Hi I believe that Private Nolan was an Australian soldier rather than an RFC man. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdparker Posted 7 October , 2019 Share Posted 7 October , 2019 According to Trevor Henshaws TSTB2, 2nd Lt H W Owen had only joined 52 Sqdn 3 days earlier, and had gone up in BE2C 2560 with an Australian soldier Pte M D Nolan, who knew the local geography. Because of mist ,they ventured over German lines, and were hit by machinegun fire causing the engine to stop. They were forced to land near Villers or Riencourt, and taken prisoner. Regards Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 7 October , 2019 Share Posted 7 October , 2019 (edited) Despite what the front of his ICRC cards says, (captured 25.2.17), the first report for Private 4486 Michael Dean, shows him captured at Villers on the 28th March 1917. The next entry is Captain Horace Owin, Royal Flying Corps, captured the same day. Michael Nolan is shown as born 6th June 1895 at Lyrup, South Australia. https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/432816/3/2/ A digital copy of his service record should be accessible from here: https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/DetailsReports/ItemDetail.aspx?Barcode=8002491&isAv=N His full name was Michael Davitt Nolan. One of the pages specifically references that he was invited to go up in the plane by Captain Owin \ Owen, and the plane subsequently failed to return. Unfortunately doesn't have a repatriation interview in the record, which might have given more details about the circumstances of his capture. Hope that helps, Peter Edited 7 October , 2019 by PRC Emphasised spelling of Owin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpjpl Posted 7 October , 2019 Share Posted 7 October , 2019 (edited) According to this site H W Owen got lost in fog and had to land near Villiers, behind German lines, after the aircraft's engine was damaged by ground fire: http://www.taylor.id.au/4486_MD_Nolan.htm JP Edit: Apologies to sdparker. Info already supplied in #3. Edited 7 October , 2019 by helpjpl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 7 October , 2019 Share Posted 7 October , 2019 4 hours ago, sdparker said: 2nd Lt H W Owen had only joined 52 Sqdn 3 days earlier, and had gone up in BE2C 2560 with an Australian soldier Pte M D Nolan, Flight Magazine reqularly reprinted German press reports of the British airmen and machines that had fallen into German hands on the Western Front. One press report dated 18th April 1917 and covering the month of March 1917 appeared in the edition dated 10th May 1917. Among the six BE2's was machine number 2560 - however it states "Occupant captured", not occupants, so perhaps one of them tried to make a run for it. All the other BE2s listed infer more than one person aboard. https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1917/1917 - 0443.html?search=2560 Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josquin Posted 7 October , 2019 Author Share Posted 7 October , 2019 Steve, Geoff, Peter and J.P.., Thank you for your highly informative replies, despite my lapse in listing Nolan as Sjt rather than Pte. You provided much more information than I anticipated, and I thank you for that. Best regards, Josquin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpjpl Posted 9 October , 2019 Share Posted 9 October , 2019 On 07/10/2019 at 22:22, PRC said: Flight Magazine reqularly reprinted German press reports of the British airmen and machines that had fallen into German hands on the Western Front. One press report dated 18th April 1917 and covering the month of March 1917 appeared in the edition dated 10th May 1917. Among the six BE2's was machine number 2560 - however it states "Occupant captured", not occupants, so perhaps one of them tried to make a run for it. All the other BE2s listed infer more than one person aboard. https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1917/1917 - 0443.html?search=2560 Nolan's capture isn't included on that list because he wasn't an airman. He was a private in the AIF: From here and in #5: http://www.taylor.id.au/4486_MD_Nolan.htm JP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 9 October , 2019 Share Posted 9 October , 2019 2 hours ago, helpjpl said: Nolan's capture isn't included on that list because he wasn't an airman. Well while you are very likely right, this report and the others I've looked at over the years are silent on whether it relates just to airmen or all the occupants of the aircraft. This circumstance must have applied to a very small number on instances, although as both the Royal Flying Corps and its German equivalent were part of the Army, I would not have thought there was a separate administration channel for reporting, There would also have been instances where one crewman came from Britain and one from one of the Dominions, and I would not expect to see them reported separately. Of course I've not been looking for such instances so they may actually exist. So unless there is a documented criteria for the underlying official report that fuelled the newspaper article, there could be a danger of assigning too much sophistication to the choice of data. It could even be Nolan who was the captured occupant of the machine and Owen who was captured separately. Maybe someone will turn up Owen or Nolan's subsequent interview on repatriation and the order of events will become clearer. Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josquin Posted 13 October , 2019 Author Share Posted 13 October , 2019 J.P. and Peter, The additional information and discussion is most appreciated. As you state, Peter, it would be of great interest if repatriation interviews exist for Owen and Nolan. Best regards, Josquin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fetubi Posted 13 October , 2019 Share Posted 13 October , 2019 All the additional information about this loss, which I provided in my expanded book The Sky Their Battlefield II, comes from the Repatriated Prisoner Statement of the pilot 2Lt Owen in AIR1/501/15/333/1 at the National Archives. He gives quite a lot of detail. Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josquin Posted 14 October , 2019 Author Share Posted 14 October , 2019 Trevor, Thank you for clarifying that the repatriation interview exists for Lt. Owen. I will follow-up at TNA. Josquin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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