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johnboy

No records of man eligible? to serve

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johnboy

I have been looking for records of service for Alfred Hewish

1911 census has him living   aged 19yrs  grocers assistant  living with  brothers Thomas [served] and John [served ] and sister Jessie aged 10

 Mother Emma widowed,

I don't think his occupation would have exempted him. Would the fact that he lived with his widowed mother have made any difference, His brother John was married with one child in 1913 His other brother Thomas joined RF in 1915 and was killed in 1916.

I am Not looking for family info , only anything military for the war years. Alfred went on to get married and owned a couple of shops

 

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seaJane

Did he have a middle name? As you don't give a region I don't know if these would be relevant or not.

 

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D2837683 - Alfred J Hewish from Gloucestershire

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D2837682 - Alfred J, whether the same or not unknown. No location given.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D2837681 - Alfred C Hewish, no location given.

 

It may be possible to make out additional details from the watermarked previews available at TNA.

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sadbrewer

I had a look...it seems he was from Clerkenwell, I can't find anything promising though.

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seaJane

These are possible births and deaths. Perhaps he wasn't accepted because he didn't pass the grade as far as health / fitness etc were concerned.

 

Births Mar 1893
Hewish  Alfred   Holborn    1b 705

 

 

Deaths Sep 1962   (>99%)
HEWISH  Alfred  69  Hendon  5e 442  

 

 

 

 

(PS these from FreeBMD)

 

 

Edited by seaJane

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PRC
2 hours ago, johnboy said:

I have been looking for records of service for Alfred Hewish

1911 census has him living   aged 19yrs  grocers assistant  living with  brothers Thomas [served] and John [served ] and sister Jessie aged 10

 Mother Emma widowed,

I don't think his occupation would have exempted him. Would the fact that he lived with his widowed mother have made any difference, His brother John was married with one child in 1913 His other brother Thomas joined RF in 1915 and was killed in 1916.

I am Not looking for family info , only anything military for the war years. Alfred went on to get married and owned a couple of shops

 

I know you didn't want family details but I think in this case they do help. He is on the 1911 Census shown as born Clerkenwell, London and was living at 28 Percival Street, St. John Street, East Central London.

 

There is then a marriage of an Alfred Hewish to a Florence M. Slade in the Shoreditch District of London in the April to June quarter, (Q2), of 1916. If that is the right man, then the marriage certificate will show his occupation – if he is in the armed forces then there should be details in the husbands occupation column. (There is an Alfred Hewish, born circa 1893, whose death was recorded in the Hendon District of Middlesex in Q3 of 1962. The 1962 Probate Calendar shows his executor as a Florence Minnie Hewish, widow. That doesn't automatically mean she is his widow, but there must be a very strong likelihood. He died on the 22nd August 1962 at Edgware General Hospital, Hendon).

 

There are also potentially twins born to this couple in Q1 of 1917 – an Alfred L Hewish and a Frederick T. Hewish, mothers maiden name Slade, registered with the Civil Authorities in the Shoreditch District. Their birth certificates would also show fathers’ occupation.

 

Sadly the death of an Alfred L and Frederick T Hewish, aged under 1, was recorded in the same Shoreditch district and the same quarter of 1917. If the father was the informant then his profession will be recorded on their death certificates.

 

It may be just a co-incidence but the birth of an Alfred J Hewish, mothers’ maiden name Slade was registered in the Eastbourne District in the July to September quarter, (Q3), of 1918. Again the birth certificate would show fathers occupation. (The death of an Alfred John Hewish, born 27th June 1918, was recorded in the Hendon District of Middlesex in 1971)

 

There are then 6 further births recorded in the Islington District between 1920 and 1930, but almost certainly this would have been after Alfred Hewish left the Armed Forces.

 

Even if he was serving on the home front it is unlikely that he would be living at home, so would most likely turn up on the 1918 & 1919 Absent Voters List. If he is on the normal electoral registers for those years then the balance tends to shift towards him not seeing service.

 

You mention that he had a brother Thomas who was killed. If Thomas’ service record has survived then it may well contain Army Form W.5080. This asked the nominated next of kin for details of surviving relatives, with a section relating to brothers. Usually completed in 1919, the information asked for is age and current address – and it’s not unusual to see care of a military unit with details such as battalion or ship.

 

Hope that gives you a few more places to look,

 

Peter

Edited by PRC
Typo

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johnboy

Thanks Peter.

I appreciate your reply I said I did not want family, not because I have done some myself but beause I did not want the thread to ramble on veering away from my question.

I did not know that he married in 1916. You have the right man.Ihave seen entries for him in directories as having grocer shop in Tottenham and Edmonton.Also Electoral roles for same places and also for Hendon. I now wonder that as he was married and had a business if this would exempt him from service.My grandfather and grandmother and my father never spoke of him. His sister Emily  who lived in Barnsbury often saw him when she went shopping in Edmonton. Unfortunately, I only have vague recollections of her conversations about him i was probably only about 6 yrs old at the time Although not a common surname there were loads of Hewishes living in Clerkenwell! most moved only about 5 miles away to north London. Barnsbury, Seven Sisters and Burnt Oak. Even when they moved houses in Clerkenwell, it was only a street just round the corner!

Unfortunatel I don't think any AVL's are online for Clerkenwell, so I think the next step is to follow up with your suggestion of the Marriage Certificate.

Again thanks for the suggestions and searching you have done.

John

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johnboy
3 hours ago, seaJane said:

Did he have a middle name? As you don't give a region I don't know if these would be relevant or not.

 

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D2837683 - Alfred J Hewish from Gloucestershire

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D2837682 - Alfred J, whether the same or not unknown. No location given.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D2837681 - Alfred C Hewish, no location given.

 

It may be possible to make out additional details from the watermarked previews available at TNA.

Thanks SJ. As far as I know He did not have a middle name

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johnboy

Even if he was classified with a low grade for health he could have been enlisted in RDC I think. he seemed OK to run his own grocery shop which I assume would have involved some lifting.

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PRC
7 hours ago, johnboy said:

I now wonder that as he was married and had a business if this would exempt him from service.

 

Short answer - No! Marriage and children by themselves carried no exemption. A quick perusal of the military tribunarals reported in local newspapers from the period regularly record small businessmen and shopkeepers told to sell their businesses if they couldn't find a family member to run it in their absense - even if the sale was at a loss. Depending on the nature of the business they seem to get a deferral of one to three months to sell up. (The Higher Appeals Tribunarals may have given more but it's not something I've really looked at).

 

Occasionally there would application for an extension to a deferral to get someone trained up - one memorable example I came across was a Tailor running a small tailoring business emplying two seamstresses. His initial deferral was to allow the wife to gain the skills needed to run the business. Unfortunately when he took her for the first time to the wholesale cloth buying market, a certain "ethnic" group who dominated the market ran rings round her leading to a significant cost. As he couldn't see how the business would escape ruin if he carried on down that path, he now wanted an additional extension to train one of the seamstresses. He got it but with the proviso that he investigate selling the business as he could not expect the tribunaral to grant a lengthy further deferral if the seamstress option did not work out.

 

It was always at best a deferral -  sooner or later they had to go.

 

7 hours ago, johnboy said:

Ihave seen entries for him in directories as having grocer shop in Tottenham and Edmonton. Also Electoral roles for same places and also for Hendon.

 

Do you have any idea when he might have opened his first shop? Is it possible he was on munitions work and only returned to the world of grocery post-war.

 

7 hours ago, johnboy said:

Even if he was classified with a low grade for health he could have been enlisted in RDC I think. he seemed OK to run his own grocery shop which I assume would have involved some lifting.

 

There is also the health reasons which means he may not have seen service, even if he lived to a comparatively ripe old age. One total exemption that had me initially scratching my head was a man who had lost the top joints of his right hand middle fingers in a pre-war industrial accident. Then I saw the reason given by the board - he was right handed and had no finger to pull a trigger even if the rest of his body was classed A1!

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

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johnboy

Thanks Pete.. Munitions is a possibility. I have looked at Middlesex Tribunal records. No luck. Deserters lists, again no luck. I will try the Directories again and remember to make a note of dates this time!

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Dai Bach y Sowldiwr
9 hours ago, johnboy said:

Unfortunatel I don't think any AVL's are online for Clerkenwell

I don't think any exist anywhere.

The only London ones I know exist are for south of the river, Brixton, Camberwell, Southwark, Wandsworth, Lewisham.

It might be worthwhile looking at the British Library indexes though.

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voltaire60

The 1916 marriage is a strong indication that he was liable for military service-given the spate of marriages for my local casualties-just after introduction of MSA and,again, just ahead of actually been called up from the Army reserve in the Spring of 1916.  As above, the marriage certificate may answer the question- or perhaps the church register, if a church wedding.

   Happy to have a search for Islington register if you think you have a 1918 address for him.

2 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

I don't think any exist anywhere.

The only London ones I know exist are for south of the river, Brixton, Camberwell, Southwark, Wandsworth, Lewisham.

It might be worthwhile looking at the British Library indexes though.

 

 Ilford as well- annexe to the nromal register. Mst AVLs are not separate but merely a different section of the normal register-itself splattered with NM in other voter categories. Plenty of those digitised on FMP

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johnboy

Gone through PO Directories which show !915, 1925 and 1930  Grocer Danbury street Islington. Perhaps living above the shop?

 

The full address given in allthree is 32,34 and 36 Danbury Street so seems not a small corner shop. That has got me wondering how he afforded it? Widowed mother, one brother a house painter the other an apprentice. Another Hewish in the area was Jonas Hewish with an old established business in Eagle Street. Not sure if/how they were related.

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PRC
9 hours ago, johnboy said:

so I think the next step is to follow up with your suggestion of the Marriage Certificate.

 

30 minutes ago, voltaire60 said:

The 1916 marriage is a strong indication that he was liable for military service-given the spate of marriages for my local casualties-just after introduction of MSA and,again, just ahead of actually been called up from the Army reserve in the Spring of 1916.  As above, the marriage certificate may answer the question- or perhaps the church register, if a church wedding.

 

If you believe thats the right couple then the marriage certificate may come too early in the timeline to give military service details - although it might have them if he married say on his first home leave!

 

The event thats most likely to fall smack bang in any period of military service is likely to be the birth of the short-lived twins, registered in the first quarter of 1917. Even though you had 42 days to register a birth, that still puts the earliest possible date of birth a no earlier than mid-November 1916 for a child registered at the start of January 1917.

 

I cannot find any other marriages of a Mr Hewish to a Miss Slade in England & Wales - although they could of course have married anywhere else or it could have been to a widow whose maiden name was Slade. But assuming they are the only such couple, that brings in to play the Eastbourne birth in Q3 of 1918.

Knock on of that is possibly the AVL you are looking for is Eastbourne, not Clerkenwell or Islington. Would be interesting to know what the home address was for the mother. Given the loss of her twins, (if it's the same woman), she may have simply moved there for the birth or have family in the area that she was staying with for support while her husband was away.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

Edited by PRC
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johnboy
4 minutes ago, PRC said:

 

 

If you believe thats the right couple then the marriage certificate may come too early in the timeline to give military service details - although it might have them if he married say on his first home leave!

 

The event thats most likely to fall smack bang in any period of military service is likely to be the birth of the short-lived twins, registered in the first quarter of 1917. Even though you had 42 days to register a birth, that still puts the earliest possible date of birth a no earlier than mid-November 1916 for a child registered at the start of January 1917.

 

I cannot find any other marriages of a Mr Hewish to a Miss Slade in England & Wales - although they could of course have married anywhere else or it could have been to a widow whose maiden name was Slade. But assuming they are the only such couple, that brings in to play the Eastbourne birth in Q3 of 1918.

Knock on of that is possibly the AVL you are looking for is Eastbourne, not Clerkenwell or Islington. Would be interesting to know what the home address was for the mother. Given the loss of her twins, (if it's the same woman), she may have simply moved there for the birth or have family in the area that she was staying with for support while her husband was away.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

Gone through PO Directories which show !915, 1925 and 1930  Grocer Danbury street Islington. Perhaps living above the shop?

 

The full address given in allthree is 32,34 and 36 Danbury Street so seems not a small corner shop. That has got me wondering how he afforded it? Widowed mother, one brother a house painter the other an apprentice. Another Hewish in the area was Jonas Hewish with an old established business in Eagle Street. Not sure if/how they were related.

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voltaire60
1 hour ago, PRC said:

 

 

If you believe thats the right couple then the marriage certificate may come too early in the timeline to give military service details - although it might have them if he married say on his first home leave!

 

The event thats most likely to fall smack bang in any period of military service is likely to be the birth of the short-lived twins, registered in the first quarter of 1917. Even though you had 42 days to register a birth, that still puts the earliest possible date of birth a no earlier than mid-November 1916 for a child registered at the start of January 1917.

 

I cannot find any other marriages of a Mr Hewish to a Miss Slade in England & Wales - although they could of course have married anywhere else or it could have been to a widow whose maiden name was Slade. But assuming they are the only such couple, that brings in to play the Eastbourne birth in Q3 of 1918.

Knock on of that is possibly the AVL you are looking for is Eastbourne, not Clerkenwell or Islington. Would be interesting to know what the home address was for the mother. Given the loss of her twins, (if it's the same woman), she may have simply moved there for the birth or have family in the area that she was staying with for support while her husband was away.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

 

   Thanks Peter-   the marriage certificate might be a toss-up as to whether he was in the services or not- it might also tell us if he had a middle name.  There is an Alfred J.Hewish listed as RGA for example.  The simplest explanation is that he was unfit or in such a low category that he missed the war.

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johnboy

Wife Florence is shown 1911Census aged 19    born Shoreditch living at 1 Grange Street , Hoxton with family Occupation milliner. Nothing pointing to any money in the family!

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PRC

Nothing on the 1911 Census to indicate 32-36 Danbury Street was a shop as far as the 1911 Census was concerned, but could simply be that the family didn't live over the shop - I was looking to see if there was a shopowner with a family relationship or even just somewhere the young Grocery Assistant from the 1911 Census might have been working. If the owner then died without family, Alfred Hewish might have inherited it.

 

But nothing to make that anything more than speculation.

 

According to Google Streetviews this is what 36 to 32 (left to right) Danbury Street, Islington looks like - they  now all seem to have been broken up into leasehold flats.

 

Cheers,

Peter

32 to 36 Danbury Street Islington sourced Google Streetviews.png

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Skipman

John Hewish was a POW there is a record of the ICRC site, there's also an Arthur (not sure if related) Might be worth checking for addresses clues etc Click

 

Mike

John Hewish.PNG

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voltaire60

Mike-  Is that man given as born Stepney 1898 in the other PA report on ICRC??

 

BUT-  Seckford Street is bang on-  right in the middle of Clerkenwell., just behind the church

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Skipman

Will have alook in a minute voltaire60

 

Not sure if this any use but Henry Alfred Hewish was born Clerkenwell.(Soldiers Died Great War)

 

Mike

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Skipman
9 minutes ago, voltaire60 said:

Mike-  Is that man given as born Stepney 1898 in the other PA report on ICRC??

 

BUT-  Seckford Street is bang on-  right in the middle of Clerkenwell., just behind the church

 

Attached other entry

 

Mike

Hewish 2.PNG

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johnboy

I can confirm John was a POW from research I have previously done. When John went overseas I think he was married with a son named John b. 1913. His wife May died. can't remember the Year.I think it might have been before 1917 because I think John gave NOK as his mother at Percival Street.Strangely, when I was working in Highbury the Seckford Arms was a pub I drank in. Seckford sometimes had an E on the end.

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Dai Bach y Sowldiwr
7 minutes ago, johnboy said:

His wife May died. can't remember the Year.I think it might have been before 1917

Was it this one Johnboy?

Deaths Dec 1918   (>99%)
             
Hewish  May  27  Islington  1b 506  btnInfo.gif Scan available - click to view

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johnboy

I don;t know Dai. I cant open your link. Maiden Name was  May Wray 

 

FMP confirm death year as 1918

Edited by johnboy

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