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Remembered Today:

Catering Corps?


Helen91

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Found another photo of my great grandfather ( top left).  Underneath the photo was written Catering Corps 1916  France.

With regards to his cap badge from another post i put up a few of you have said it looks like 11th (County of London) Battalion the London Regiment (Finsbury Rifles).

Could anyone make light as to why he would be in a catering corps? I didn't think they had catering corps until 1940's.

Thank you

John francis ww1 france_Fotor.jpg

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Looks like a Prince  of Wales feathers to me, not a Maltese Cross. I don't think there was a Catering Corps, just battalion cooks. Happy to be proved wrong! 

The other photo of him was positively identified as Finsbury Rifles. 

 

Michelle

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The Army Catering Corps was formed on March 22, 1941. Before then, units had their own cooks, some of whom were trained at a cookery school at Aldershot.

 

Moonraker

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I'm useless at looking for medal cards on Ancestry, so couldn't find a John F Francis. over to the experts. The  cap badge might be ( if I'm seeing the feathers correctly) 3rd Dragoon Guards, Wilts Yeomanry,  10th Royal Hussars, Leinster or Welch .

Michelle 

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I think we need a closer look at them there cap badges Helen, the one in the above image is certainly not the Finsbury Rifles 

 

J

Edited by jay dubaya
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Probably 15th Battalion London Regiment (Civil Service Rifles).  The photo almost certainly shows battalion cooks, as suggested by Michelle.  They are seated on a field cooker (two of which made a field “kitchen”).  These were designed to be able to cook on the move so that footsore men arrived at the end of a long march to a hot meal.  For that reason, on a battalion move (out of danger) the cookers would often move with the advance party.

 

For Helen:  it’s important to note that it’s not a vague identification in the earlier photo that you posted.  The shoulder title was absolutely clear and confirms that at the time of that photo he was with the 11th London’s (Finsbury Rifles).  If it is definitely him in the second photo (above), then he must have quite early in the war transferred, or been posted to the Civil Service Rifles, which was also a part of the London Regiment - a Territorial regiment of part-time, citizen soldiers.

 

There were two units of the 15th that served in France (one first line and one second line).  

The 1/15th landed in France in 1915 as part of 47th (2nd London) Division, and stayed until the end of the war.  

The 2/15th were in France only between June and November 1916, before embarking for Salonika, but they then returned to France as reinforcements in 1918 and remained until the end of the war.

 

Footnote:  The 11th London’s (Finsbury Rifles) also had first and second line units and the 1/11th were initially part of the 1st London Division, which dispersed, virtually piecemeal to a variety of garrisons and formations wider abroad and in France and Flanders.  

Along with the 1/10th London’s, the 1/11th were the only Infantry units left behind and were eventually sent to join the 58th (East Anglian) Division, subsequently fighting in Gallipoli, Egypt and Mesopotamia, they never served in France.

The 2/11th did serve in France, but did not disembark there until January 1917.

Given these facts it seems likely that your great grandfather was transferred out of the 1/11th during the early days of the 1st London Division’s mobilisation to the Civil Service Rifles (15th London’s), rather than be left behind with his parent unit when everyone else was going abroad. He was probably among the younger and fitter men.

In the simplest terms, “first and second line” described the chronological sequence in which Territorial units were ready, willing and able to deploy on operations overseas.

 I hope this helps with your understanding.

 

 

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62AB0CF1-ACE3-4C5D-B7B5-DB82654B9857.jpeg

 

 

 

 

8B6A0687-8E11-4DEC-84B4-7CB4701F352E.jpeg

 

93E5EA73-049D-459D-8061-82CCC89011A4.jpeg

Edited by FROGSMILE
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On 06/10/2019 at 19:46, jay dubaya said:

I think we need a closer look at them there cap badges Helen, the one in the above image is certainly not the Finsbury Rifles 

 

J

Hi J
Unfortunately that is how the picture is. Only pixelates when i try and get a closer view.
Regards
Helen

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good evening,

 

this one identification plate of a kitchen travelin  to "La Targette " (near Vimy Ridge) :

 

1789420710_cuisineroulante.JPG.952d4e796fafe212243987ba50d17171.JPG

 

if you are any information about this plate (unit).

I'll be delighted

 

regards

 

michel

Edited by battle of loos
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15 minutes ago, Helen91 said:

Hi J
Unfortunately that is how the picture is. Only pixelates when i try and get a closer view.
Regards
Helen

 

Not to worry Helen, Michelle and Frogsmile both have a keen eye for cap badges and I feel pretty confident that they are correct in their observation with the above images. Do you have any further photos or documents that may relate to your great grandfathers war service, even the smallest snippet can hold great detail.

 

J

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8 minutes ago, battle of loos said:

good evening,

 

this one identification plate of a kitchen travelin  to "La Targette " (near Vimy Ridge) :

 

1789420710_cuisineroulante.JPG.952d4e796fafe212243987ba50d17171.JPG

 

if you are any information about this plate (unit).

I'll be delighted

 

regards

 

michel

 

An exceptionally nice find Michel, I would suspect that it is from a set up as shown in the images posted by Frogsmile above

 

J

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1 hour ago, Helen91 said:

Hi J
Unfortunately that is how the picture is. Only pixelates when i try and get a closer view.
Regards
Helen

 

With the help of Jay and Mark a little more information has been found, Helen.  See: https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/275729-john-frederick-francis-london-regiment/

 

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3 hours ago, battle of loos said:

if you are any information about this plate (unit).

I'll be delighted

 

If you're not already aware - RCD = "Royal Carriage Department".

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6 hours ago, Andrew Upton said:

 

If you're not already aware - RCD = "Royal Carriage Department".

 

good morning,

 

Thank you for your response.
it is possible to regain the unity to which it was assigned.

 

michel

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It’s a manufacturers plate Michel so no specific unit details, the unit markings would have been painted on the carriage itself so sadly no way of knowing.

 

J

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The battalion Quartermaster would have had a record of the carriage serial number for accounting purposes (he was required to do so), but the equipment ledger in which these were kept is unlikely to have survived.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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good morning,

 

the discovery sector "La Targette", the loss of this plate would be between February 1916 and April 1917.
certainly during a bombing.
it has a shrapnel impact.

 

regards

 

michel

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