S E Bastable, PVT, 30195, 9th Service Battalion, Devonshire Regiment

[outrunkid]

Hello. A few months ago I did some research on my family history and came across my great grand uncle. 

 

His name was Sampson Edward Bastable (sometimes listed as Samson but it would seem after his death he is listed as S E Bastable), born 31st December 1885 in Smethwick to Charles Edward and Ruth Bastable. I believe he was married but as of yet I have no definite knowledge. 

On 5th April 1916 he joined the Army, assigned to the 9th Battalion of the Devonshire Regiment, Service Number 30195, and arrived on the Western Front on the 6th August 1916, serving in C Company, 12th platoon.

On the 4th January 1917,  he was killed in action at Beaumont-Hamel.

He is buried at the Munich Trench British Cemetery in France. 

 

I am wondering if anyone has any information on the battalion, the regiment, the company or platoon between his time serving - AUGUST 1916 TO JANUARY 1917. What I would really love to know is how he died but of course I realise the odds of anybody knowing or being able to find out is extraordinarily remote. If someone has photographs or records of the regiment or of him I'd really appreciate being made aware. 

 

I've attached a few documents that list his death announcement and grave details. I've already checked the Common Wealth Grave Commissions site and found his grave listing.  

[Mark1959]

The abbreviation at the end of the biography is unm; that indicates unmarried.

There is a pension ledger card for him. His mother Ruth (306, Halesowen Road, Old Hill, Staffs) made a claim which supports his probab;e single status.

Another card suggests she got 4.6 a week from mid-1917 - could mean 4s 6d or £4 6s

The card and his effects record both indicate presumed dead. Although the CWGC records do not suggest that his body was found/identified later

edit

He was listed as missing on a war office list published 15/2/17

A bricklayer - supposedly aged 26 - called Samson E Bastable left Liverpool on the SS Empress of Britain on 23/11/1912. Occupation Bricklayer. Did he think of emigrating. Is this him? Ship was bound for St John, New Brunswick. There is another Samson who was alive after the war - also a bricklayer - so possibly not

Edited 3 October , 2019 by Mark1959

[sotonmate]

War diary will give you the narrative for the period you require.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352414

[PRC]

15 hours ago, Mark1959 said:

He was listed as missing on a war office list published 15/2/17

 

The Commonwealth War Graves Commission, (CWGC), website has this to say about the Munich Trench British Cemetery at Beaumont Hamel.

 

Beaumont-Hamel was captured in November 1916, in the Battle of the Ancre, and the graves in this cemetery are largely those of men who died at that time. The burials were carried out by the V Corps in the spring of 1917, after the German withdrawal to the Hindenburg Line. Munich Trench British Cemetery (originally V Corps Cemetery No.8) was named from a German trench captured by the 7th Division on 11 January 1917.

Source: https://www.cwgc.org/find-a-cemetery/cemetery/58302/munich-trench-british-cemetery,-beaumont-hamel/

 

Unfortunately from the point of view of your request it doesn't look like a missing persons enquiry was received by the International Committee of the Red Cross as sometimes they give details down to section, platoon and company and which would back up the information shown in what I assume in one of the volumes of De Ruvignys.

 

The 9th Devons were part of the 20th Brigade of the 7th Division during the time he served with him.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/devonshire-regiment/

 

There is a bit more on the 7th Division and the actions they were engaged in here:-

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/7th-division/

(The names are the ones they are commonly known as - if you copy and paste them into Google you'll be able to find out more or do a forum search).

 

If you have access to Ancestry, (via personal subscription or at the Libray if you're resident in the UK and your local library service has it - most do) then both the Battalion and Brigade War Diaries should be viewable. I tend to go for the Brigade ones as they include a copy of the Battalion War Diary for the same period for all the units that made up the Brigade and  they are normally typed up rather than hand-written, plus quite often appendices and maps that have gone missing from the Battalion War Diary will still be present in the Brigade copy.

14 hours ago, sotonmate said:

War diary will give you the narrative for the period you require.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352414

 

20th Brigade:

1st July to 31st August 1916: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14053294

1st September to 31st October 1916: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14053295

1st November to 31st December 1916: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14053296

1st January to 28th February 1917: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14053297

 

There used to be an online site where you could view the Official Regimental History - Devonshire Regiment 1914-1918 by C.T Atkinson, but it's now defunct. You may be able to get a copy via your local library, and reprints are available at all the usual places.

 

There are no other (obvious) casualties on this day for the 9th Battalion showing up on the CWGC, so sadly he may have died as as result of the daily attrition of trench warfare.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

 

Edited 4 October , 2019 by PRC
Typo

[outrunkid]

26 minutes ago, PRC said:

The Commonwealth War Graves Commission, (CWGC), website has this to say about the Munich Trench British Cemetery at Beaumont Hamel.

 

First of all, thank you for the information. It will take some time to go through it all. I believe that a library near me has some of the official records for the local army regiments so i will be checking them out. It is sad but interesting to think that since there were no other significant casualties on that day he was likely a random death on that day. Thank you very much for all your effort 

[outrunkid]

2 hours ago, Mark1959 said:

Another card suggests she got 4.6 a week from mid-1917 - could mean 4s 6d or £4 6s

The card and his effects record both indicate presumed dead. Although the CWGC records do not suggest that his body was found/identified later

edit

He was listed as missing on a war office list published 15/2/17

A bricklayer - supposedly aged 26 - called Samson E Bastable left Liverpool on the SS Empress of Britain on 23/11/1912. Occupation Bricklayer. Did he think of emigrating. Is this him? Ship was bound for St John, New Brunswick. There is another Samson who was alive after the war - also a bricklayer - so possibly not

Hi. Thanks for all the effort. You say that there is another pension card - do you have a link to it? Similarly, you say he is listed missing - perhaps you could point me in the right direction as so I could view it myself. And coincidentally he and his family were bricklayers and it seems right that he would have been about that age in 1912. But I have absolutely no knowledge of any sort of immigration. Curious 

[PRC]

4 hours ago, outrunkid said:

His name was Sampson Edward Bastable (sometimes listed as Samson but it would seem after his death he is listed as S E Bastable), born 31st December 1885 in Smethwick to Charles Edward and Ruth Bastable. I believe he was married but as of yet I have no definite knowledge. 

 

There is a Sampson Edward Bastable whose birth was registered with the Civil Authorities in the Kings Norton Civil District of Worcestershire in the January to March quarter of 1883. Smethwick fell within this Civil Registration District. His mothers' maiden name was Stringer.  (Going forward to the 1911 Census Charles Edward and Ruth are stated to have been married 34 years but I couldn't track down a likely marriage, so couldn't confirm Ruths' maiden name). However the ages given on the Census of England & Wales - 1891 Sampson aged 8, 1901 Samson, aged 18 Bricklayers Labourer and 1911 Sampson, aged 28 Bricklayers Labourer would all appear to rule out an 1885 date of birth - did you mean 31st December 1882?

 

There is also a Samson Edward Bastable whose birth was registered with the Civil Authorities in the West Bromwich District of Staffordshire in the January to March quarter of 1887. His mothers' maiden name was Bastable which will usually mean a single parent. However a Sampson Edward Bastable is baptised at Blackheath, Worcestershire on the 1st May 1887 and his parents are Samuel and Myra E Bastable. A Samson Bastable, born Oldbury, Worcestershire circa 1887 then turns up with them on subsequent 1891 & 1901 censuses. West Bromwich Civil Registration District included Oldbury.

 

4 hours ago, outrunkid said:

I believe he was married but as of yet I have no definite knowledge. 

 

 The younger Sampson Edward Bastable turns up on the 1911 census as a married man, living in the household of his parents Samuel and Myra. A Bricklayer, he has been married under a year. Among the other occupants of the house is a 21 year old Olive Bastable, a married woman who has been married under a year. Her relationship to the head of the family is given as "Sons wife". They were living at 212 Causeway Green Road, Langley, Birmingham. The  address was in the West Bromwich Civil Registration Area.

Is this the possible cause of the confusion about your Sampson Edward being married?

 

3 hours ago, Mark1959 said:

A bricklayer - supposedly aged 26 - called Samson E Bastable left Liverpool on the SS Empress of Britain on 23/11/1912. Occupation Bricklayer. Did he think of emigrating. Is this him? Ship was bound for St John, New Brunswick. There is another Samson who was alive after the war - also a bricklayer - so possibly not

 

On the records that are visible he gives his place of birth as Birmingham, but the ages on various documents relating to arriving in Canada, moving to the US and settling in the US before and after the war all point to the 1887 born man and the trade is given as Bricklayer. I think it's fairly clear he can be ruled out.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

Edited 3 October , 2019 by PRC
Typo

[Bardess]

Responded on another thread and also by PM.

[PRC]

You mean this one

 

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Bardess]

Indeed

[Mark1959]

I concur with Peter's conclusions on identification.

The pension cards are available from the Western Front Association or on the fold3 add-on to ancestry.

The "missing" report is a transcribed record on forces-war-records

[outrunkid]

On 03/10/2019 at 21:00, PRC said:

 

There is a Sampson Edward Bastable whose birth was registered...

 

There is also a Samson Edward Bastable whose birth was registered...

 

 

 The younger Sampson Edward Bastable turns up on the 1911 census as a married man...

Hiya. That is so interesting. I think somewhere I have gotten confused by the dates and the fact that there seems to be two sampson/samsons in the area both with a father called samuel and both were brick layers. The confusion is understandable. I am heading into my local archives to check out better and hopefully learn more. Thanks for the info though, it's just so fascinating and complicated

 

[outrunkid]

On 03/10/2019 at 21:00, PRC said:

1891 Sampson aged 8, 1901 Samson, aged 18 Bricklayers Labourer and 1911 Sampson, aged 28 Bricklayers Labourer would all appear to rule out an 1885 date of birth - did you mean 31st December 1882?

Hi ya - been doing my research more in my local archives and i've found something interesting. You are absolutely right regarding the census info, and birth registry - all point to a date of birth of jan-march 1883. However, in his De Ruvigny's Roll of Honour listing his date of birth is listed 31st December 1885. How come? Am I reading it wrong?

 

Also found out he served with the South Staffordshire Regiment too, service number 23343.

[Bardess]

I think the DOB was possibly written or read incorrectly. Easily done

[PRC]

4 hours ago, outrunkid said:

However, in his De Ruvigny's Roll of Honour listing his date of birth is listed 31st December 1885. How come? Am I reading it wrong?

I don't think you're reading it wrong but there are so many potential places in the process of producing the final printed version that appears in De Ruvignys that I would only treat it as correct if I can verify it from other sources. The original submission, from friends \ family \ fiancee etc was almost certainly not fact checked.

 

So unless his parents were involved in some long term deception of the authorities going back to birth registration and the ages shown on the subsequent censuses you start getting into ever more convoluted scenarios to try and make the facts fits with a source that is not entirely trustworthy.

 

The flip side is to bear it in mind if you come across evidence that calls into question all the information that currently supports a late 1882 \ early 1883 date of birth.

 

Cheers,

Peter