The wreck of the submarine G-7

[RaySearching]

The wreck of the submarine G-7 found by Marine Quest off the Farne Isles Sept 2015

 

 

 

Ray

[Hyacinth1326]

I carried out an analysis on the loss of the Submarine based upon primary source documents. G7 (Lt. Russell) cast off from Titania, Blyth at 06:45 on October 21, 1918.

 

 This was at a time of heightened tension because Room 40 was assembling information that a major sortie on the part of the HSF was imminent.  Through the Summer and Autumn months HSF U-boats had been assiduously laying the 'Bell Rock Arc' - belt of mines designed to snare Grand Fleet units based on the Forth.  Room 40 expected the UC boats to extend these minefields southwards thus posing a hazard to the 11th Flotilla submarines based at Blyth.  Anti submarine/scouting patrols on the part of the 11th Flotilla submarines were organised to intercept the HSF en route. At 05:56 on 23 October, G7 was ordered by Captain (S) 11, Stanley Willis to enter a billet 'West of Little Fisher Bank'. This order was acknowledged by G7.  At this stage the boat must have been approaching her patrol zone.  G7 was replacing G10  and likely followed the same outward track as her 'chummy boat' (ADM 173/2424).  Based upon analysis of previous 'G' class patrols in the Little Fisher Bank sector, it would take three days from Blyth to reach this billet and three days to return.  The average length of patrol in this sector was six days.  It is probably that Lt. Russell left the billet on the night of October 27/28, following the same return route as that adopted on her previous patrol (ADM 173/2378).  The boat failed to return to Blyth and was declared lost.  Few details emerged and it was generally believed for decades that in the absence of any German claims, the boat had been mined a short distance West of her billet.  The discovery of a 'G' boat wreck in the Farnes Deep and the subsequent discovery of a second 'G' class boat off Hirtshals Havn in Denmark (now positively identified as the similarly missing G8) meant that the Farnes Deep wreck has to be G7. 

 

The key question is what destroyed G7?  A mine is the most obvious candidate but there were no U-boat laid minefields anywhere near her calculated track through the Farne Deeps according to German records.  The possibility of a free floating rogue mine off the NE coast  that Autumn cannot be ruled out.  Interestingly the divers have pointed out that the damage abaft the conning tower does not resemble mine damage they have witnessed on other wrecked boats.    The break is more of a shear.  Fittings have been sliced through.  A mine could conceivably do that.  So could the bows of a ship.  The stern has been completely severed and lies a distance from the rest of the boat.  Whatever fate overtook her, it happened on the surface as likely as not as the boat was returning from patrol. The bows are aligned SW. Submarine procedure was dominated by the necessity of charging batteries at night running on the surface powered by one of the motors.  The conning tower hatch is open and there are other signs that the boat  was travelling on the surface, not least of which is that the search periscope is housed. The Blyth 'G' boats were required to transmit an ETA signal to Titania  when five miles away from the War Channel and advise which approach - St Abbs Head, Longstone, Coquet Island or St Mary's Island - was being used. In this instance the course was shaped towards Coquet Island.  As no message was ever received from G7, the evidence is that she was destroyed on the surface in darkness before reaching the five mile point.

 

The wreck lies on the Longstone/Lista route, a course favoured by colliers trading between the Tyne and Scandinavia.  It was also guarded by local Auxiliary Patrol units at the junction with the War Channel. I have checked the Sector VIII diary and contacts were indeed reported within the time frame in question.However none of these incidents amounted to a ramming.  Friendly fire incidents were endemic on this route.   The most recent was the destruction of J6. There is evidence that C.in.C Grand Fleet Beatty and his staff were crucially failing to share information concerning submarine movements with other East coast units. Of course it is possible that G7 could have been rammed by a merchant ship.

 

G7 was lost on her second patrol from Blyth. It was Lt. Russell's first patrol as Captain, the previous commander having been Lt. P Stanley. It is likely that the boat was destroyed while inbound on the night of October 30/31, 1918. As most of the casing has fallen from the wreck, we will probably never know for certain what the cause of loss was.  A mine will always be in the frame but ramming by friendly forces cannot be ruled out.   G7 leaves Armstrong's Elswick Works, August 1916.

Edited 28 September , 2019 by Hyacinth1326

[Lörscher]

Hello Hyacinth,

 

just a few remarks from me:

 

1) From my notes it was the third trip from Blyth by G 7, after coming over from the Tees Flotilla.

09.09.18 - 17.09.18 = R-patrol, west of Danmark

28.09.18 - 07.10.18 = Z21-patrol, southwest of Lister

21.10.18 started her third and final patrol from Blyth ...

 

2) Mine or collision?

It's interesting to hear, that the wreck doesn't looke like having hit a mine. But neither the mine theory nor the collision theory should be accepted to be certain, of course.

 

2a) collision

One should expect a report from any surface vessel hitting an unknown vessel feeling a heavy bump (collision) and even right after G 7's loss the N.I.D. for certain had a look for things like that. They also knew that "friendly fire" or that kind of stuff was a common occurence those days.

 

2b) mine

please see this thread as to the possible minefield which MIGHT have claimed G 7:

https://uboat.net/forums/read.php?23,95377,95404#msg-95404

 

But first I'm not sure of the exact position of G 7's wreck and also I have to say that I'm personally tend to think of a drifting mine (if any) rather than a German submarine laid minefield.

 

 

Oliver

 

 

 

[RaySearching]

Hyacinth and Oliver

Thanks for the comprehensive additions to the post 

My interest is that a local memorial man Able Seaman Edwin Horton  232707 (Dev)  M.I.D  perished when she was lost

 

During my research I came across a first hand account  On this website regarding the depot ship HMS Titania which gives an insight  

serving with Titania during  1917-1918

 

 

 

Ray

 

[Hyacinth1326]

Thanks Olli.

 

 You will know that G7's October log has not survived so thanks for the information.   

 

I am also inclined to think that a drifting mine may have been the cause but...two units of Sector VIII Auxiliary Patrol trawlers scoured the inner end of the Coquet Island/Lista route very close to the position  of the G7 wreck on 28 and 30 October and both reported it clear of mines - but of course a loose mine would not necessarily be visible. Room 40 appears to have been tracking U-78's mine-laying activities judging from the 'Room 40 History'. This boat was specifically identified in relation to the 'Bell Rock Arc' operation. Certainly Room 40 was acting on  specific intelligence in directing Sector VIII mine-sweeping activities in October 1918, judging from the Tyne Diary ADM 53/63732.  These mines were apparently 'being swept as soon as they were laid'

 

Also the stern section is some distance from the rest of the G7 wreck.  This is not uncommon in submarine mining as you know but in this instance the stern is an unusually long distance away and interestingly it is aligned NE.  This also points to the stern having been blown - or cleaved off on the surface.

 

 

The Lista route was used intensively by single sailing merchant ships in the last three months of the First World War.  The 'bounty' was still being paid out at this stage.  It is feasible that G7 could have been run down by an outbound merchant hungry for the prize money.  Realising that they had run down a British submarine, the case for a Scandinavian merchant vessel (or British for that matter)keeping silent would have been overwhelming.  The only evidence for this is the nature of the damage to the boat and it is far from conclusive.

 

So...an open mind but the probability, as you concluded, remains a loose mine.  I can confirm that there were no British minefields between the controlled minefield guarding Blyth and the minefields protecting the Forth approaches.  By October 1918 the coastal minefield stopped at the Tyne.

Edited 28 September , 2019 by Hyacinth1326

[Lörscher]

5 hours ago, Hyacinth1326 said:

....

 You will know that G7's October log has not survived so thanks for the information.   

...

Hello Hyacinth,

 

well, it's vice versa with my sources: I haven't seen most of the logbooks, but in this case here I have seen the "Reports of Proceedings" from X. and XI. Flotilla (ADM 137/871). These reports in most instances just say "slipped and proceeded from base" or similar and "arrived at base", just rarely mentioning TITANIA or Tees or so.

But each report was signed by Commander(S) Blyth (or Tees), so you know the base for certain.

See here September/October patrol attached ...

 

Oliver

[Lörscher]

6 hours ago, Hyacinth1326 said:

...  These mines were apparently 'being swept as soon as they were laid' ...

As for that: oh yes, from our (German) perspective that's all so true :-(

 

You have a radical decline of successes of the German minelaying submarines from the end of 1917, no question why :-)

 

An neutral or even allied merchant skipper who rammed (or collided) with an surfaced submarine for sure would have made an report on that when back in harbour, but you are right: IF he knew it was an friendly submarine, he probably would NOT.

 

But..., well, that would mean that there were some survivors crying for help (in english language), how else the skipper could know it was a friendly one?

 

Gruesome!

 

Oliver

[Hyacinth1326]

Olli

 

Thanks for that extract.  Most interesting.  I don't think I have encountered a description of one submarine apparently attempting to ram another submarine before.  I wonder if it was a British submarine mistakenly attacking G7 (despite what is written in the conclusion ???)

 

You will know about H5 rammed and sunk by a bounty seeking merchant.

[Lörscher]

Hello,

 

well, trying to ram the other submarine was not that uncommon, at least when the two vessels are nearby and no time to prepare the torpedoes :-)

 

Oliver

[Hyacinth1326]

You would think it would cause as much damage to the attacker as the attacked.

[Lörscher]

Well, not necessarily, hitting the other vessel with an nearly 90° angle. It's like the destoyers tried to do it and yes, it's not the safest form of attack for the own vessel, but ...

 

Oliver

[Hyacinth1326]

I am touch with some of the G-7 divers.  I will keep you informed of any developments.

[Lörscher]

Well, I would say ...

 

If the divers just can confirm, that the G 7 wreck is OUTSIDE of U 78's minefield (this is what I expect), without giving away the exact location of course, that would be a nice add :-)

 

Oliver

[Hyacinth1326]

The divers have given me information which indicates that the wreck is a significant distance from U-78's minefield.  G7 may have run into  a loose British mine laid in October 1918.

[Lörscher]

Hi, thank you for confirming my thougths :-)

It's just to easy to expect a success from a german laid mine, just because it's roughly the correct area, but in reality it's not and this is also true for all the other missing vessels which where lost with all hands.

Thanks again.

 

Cheers

Oliver

[Hyacinth1326]

I consulted the Leith Lockhart mining history. Mines were being laid  East of Blyth in a protective minefield throughout October.  This minefield extended well East of the War Channel towards the Fanes Deep. Just to the South of the Coquet Island /Lista Light route.  If one of these mines broke free in bad weather and drifted North it would end up fouling the route.  Indeed I discovered a brief report of three explosions heard by one of the hydrophone equipped trawlers on October 31