Widow's Pension - "Noted for Novel"

[Matlock1418]

What does "Noted for Novel" stamped on a Widow's Pension card mean?

Edited 24 September , 2019 by Matlock1418

[Acknown]

What was her name?

Acknown

 

[Matlock1418]

Apologies - not providing name at the moment.

I note David Tattersfield of WFA has the same question in his guide to pension records

The card has been stamped "Noted for Novel" - this is a frequent occurrence but the meaning of this is currently unknown. Anyone reading this article who may be able to shed some light on this is invited to contact the author.

https://www.westernfrontassociation.com/world-war-i-articles/pension-record-cards-and-ledgers-some-examples-of-dependents-cards/ 

[ss002d6252]

I've spoken with David in the past when we've been looking at some of the pension stuff and so far it's still a mystery. I do think it's crackable though in due course where a few examples can be compared (and quite possibly a read of the surviving MoP manuals).

 

 

Craig

 

[Matlock1418]

15 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

I've spoken with David in the past when we've been looking at some of the pension stuff and far it's still a mystery. I do think it's crackable though in due course where a few examples can be compared (and quite possibly a read of the surviving MoP manuals).

I hope it can be as I'm scratching my head at the moment. ;-)

Not wanting a public discussion of the individual on the thread at the moment but will PM David

Meantime ...?

Edited 24 September , 2019 by Matlock1418

[David Tattersfield]

Thanks for the PM alerting me. 

 

Yes, the cards are currently in the process of being loaded onto Fold3 and (by implication) onto the WFA's library edition of Fold3. I'm waiting details from my contact at Ancestry about how long this will take. I will look to make a public announcement on the WFA's web site as soon as I know anything (although with bad timing I'm due to go out to France in a few days time so it may be that this will impact on the information I'm planing on sharing).

 

re your specific question about Noted for Novel. 

 

This is one of the mysteries that I've not been able to fathom. There are others but this is perhaps the most intriguing. In an ideal world I'd love to make contact with someone who worked on these records in the 1920's onwards. There must be lots of stories / anecdotes that would fascinate us all.

 

I've mentioned this phrase in another article (besides the one mentioned above) which can be found on the WFA's web site here...

https://www.westernfrontassociation.com/world-war-i-articles/pension-record-cards-claims-for-soldiers-who-were-killed/

 

Craig is absolutely vital here as he is very knowledgeable but - as we agreed in a conversation - we need to get sufficient examples of these 'Noted for Novel' cases so we (or more accurately Craig !) may be able work this out. 

 

This is the benefit of having these discussed here on the GWF.

 

Sorry I can't help further. 

Edited 24 September , 2019 by David Tattersfield
extra info re article

[Mark1959]

My fivepennyworth is that Novel is probably an abbreviation - but I can think of no phrase or word that makes pension sense. I spent a brief time on pensions after my AMO stint. A group trawl of the cards once on fold3 seems the obvious approach. This should identify the common theme and hopefully what it means. Happy to help in such a project. We will probably find it is something very mundane.

[David Tattersfield]

3 minutes ago, Mark1959 said:

My fivepennyworth is that Novel is probably an abbreviation - but I can think of no phrase or word that makes pension sense. I spent a brief time on pensions after my AMO stint. A group trawl of the cards once on fold3 seems the obvious approach. This should identify the common theme and hopefully what it means. Happy to help in such a project. We will probably find it is something very mundane.

That would be excellent. I'd certainly be keen for the results of this to be written up into a piece for the WFA web site. I really appreciate this, Mark. 

[Matlock1418]

3 minutes ago, Mark1959 said:

My fivepennyworth is that Novel is probably an abbreviation

Probably something like that but "Novel" is not capitalised - so currently seems not an acronym as those are normally capitalised

???

[David Tattersfield]

1 minute ago, Matlock1418 said:

"Novel" is not capitalised

 

In some cases it is. See the Cleall example here https://www.westernfrontassociation.com/world-war-i-articles/pension-record-cards-claims-for-soldiers-who-were-killed/

 

The text is "Noted for Novel" ie capitals. 

 

Cheers

 

David

[Matlock1418]

 

 

26 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

Probably something like that but "Novel" is not capitalised - so currently seems not an acronym as those are normally capitalised

 

23 minutes ago, David Tattersfield said:

In some cases it is. See the Cleall example here https://www.westernfrontassociation.com/world-war-i-articles/pension-record-cards-claims-for-soldiers-who-were-killed/

 

The text is "Noted for Novel" ie capitals

 

OK, part fair cop - I should have been more clear re: Abbreviations and Acronyms - Fully capitalised - e.g. GWF, CWGC, AWOL, KSLI, RAMC, APW, WCA etc. [not intending to suggest it is a military or pension unit - could easily and alternatively be a document perhaps]

There are plenty of fully capitalised abbreviations used on Cards and Ledgers - probably very clear to the clerks of the day, but now ... ??? - Now we are scratching about this inked stamping - ???

Not fully capitalised in the example I have looked at and quoted, nor in your Cleall case either David - Same inked stamping "Noted for Novel" [mixed case]

Interesting though.

The case goes onwards ... ??? [Edit: no pun intended - I should have written - "the search goes onwards"]

More sleuths and answers sought.

;-)

Edited 24 September , 2019 by Matlock1418

[David Tattersfield]

I see what you mean. If I get time I'll try to fish out some examples of this phrase from the cards I've examined, however this may not be productive as it's pretty labour intensive (and I'm currently refreshing the user guides for WFA members). 

[David Tattersfield]

Here's an example

[ss002d6252]

Excellent, I was going to suggest exactly what had been mentioned in respect of examples etc. It is hard yards though to trawl through.

 

Craig

[David Tattersfield]

and another, but this time without a stamp - in handwriting

[David Tattersfield]

and this one has abbreviated the phrase to N/N which will probably set the cat amongst the pigeons !

 

[David Tattersfield]

and another one which has abbreviated Noted for Novel to NN

 

[David Tattersfield]

and another

 

[David Tattersfield]

this time in full (in handwriting)

[David Tattersfield]

this one an early death (1914) and a coloured card. 

 

What I've noticed here is that all of these are on the same type of card. None of the examples so far are on the 'other' types of card that were used. Coincidence? 

[David Tattersfield]

this one an example of the executed men from Iron (the incident that  @Hedley Malloch  has so diligently researched)

[RussT]

The only legal-type connection I can find for the word novel derives from some old Roman law concerning a new decree or an amendment to an existing statute.

 

Apparently (according to our friend google) the 118th novel is the foundation and groundwork of the English statute of distribution of intestate's effects.

 

No idea if this has any relevance but might as well start the guessing somewhere !

 

Regards

 

Russ

[Matlock1418]

28 minutes ago, David Tattersfield said:

What I've noticed here is that all of these are on the same type of card. None of the examples so far are on the 'other' types of card that were used. Coincidence?

Same type of card used for OP/original widow.

 

Not that I have noted any similarity with the above, but ... just in case it strikes a cord/helps ... the OP/original  widow was also cited on her dead nephew's DEPENDANT'S PENSION card [Printed as such at top and different from the untitled widow's cards we have so far seen for "Noted for Novel"] as his "Dependant" - There is no record on that card as to whether she got any pension, nor any reason for refusal.

[Matlock1418]

5 minutes ago, RussT said:

The only legal-type connection I can find for the word novel derives from some old Roman law concerning a new decree or an amendment to an existing statute.

 

Apparently (according to our friend google) the 118th novel is the foundation and groundwork of the English statute of distribution of intestate's effects.

 

No idea if this has any relevance but might as well start the guessing somewhere !

"Novel" - legal amendment - Sound very plausible, but then again I'm not a lawyer.

What is exactly the purpose/intention in our cases remains the central part of our on-going puzzle

Think we might perhaps be on the right lines though [but note my caution - I have known to be wrong, often!]

 

I can also note that the OP/original widow was subsequently awarded an "increase pension by 2/6 [2s/6d] a week with effect from 4.1.17 in respect of widow's  age" [my calculation from the 1911 Census was that she was born c.1882 - this would make her approx. 35 yo]

[David Tattersfield]

here's a group of them. Having examined these, the occurrence of this phrase is far more prevalent than I realised. In fact, this may appear in the majority of the examples I've looked at. So turning the question on its head - why is the phrase NOT appearing on some cards? 

 

Most of these are cards for men with children, but not all.

 

ALL of the cards are of the same type. I thought previously the use of the TYPE of cards was random but perhaps not.