RFT Posted 25 September , 2019 Author Share Posted 25 September , 2019 (edited) Excellent - Squadron records are clearly incorrect. The 47 Squadron man I am researching is indeed 30248 Flt Sgt A Reeve (I do have his record). Edited 25 September , 2019 by RFT Additional info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 26 September , 2019 Share Posted 26 September , 2019 19 hours ago, RFT said: Using the photographic technique referred to - Am I correct in assuming vertical lines exist in the centre of the lighter edges of the ribbon (see main photo)? Yes - basically orthochromatic film renders the blue light, and the orange dark, whilst the narrow black stripes stay the same - see: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFT Posted 1 October , 2019 Author Share Posted 1 October , 2019 Thanks Andrew. Would very much like to see the outcome using the colours contained in the ribbon of St Stanislaus (Russian Medal for Zeal). The result may determine which of the two medals is worn by our sergeant. Can you oblige? Apologies for the delay in replying but have been away for several days. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 2 October , 2019 Share Posted 2 October , 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, RFT said: Would very much like to see the outcome using the colours contained in the ribbon of St Stanislaus (Russian Medal for Zeal). The result may determine which of the two medals is worn by our sergeant. Can you oblige? Attempts to reproduce the effect of orthochromatic film using modern technology have been tried on the forum with mixed results in the past. The easiest way would be to find a good quality period photo of a known ribbon of St Stanislaus (Russian Medal for Zeal) and use that. However, given it is simply a red-white striped ribbon, the white should appear white and the red dark, so much like a simple black/white version of itself, eg: Although similar to the first ribbon in the original photograph, to my eye the spacing of the stripes is off, the centre being noticeably wider for example. My thoughts would be that BWM followed by the Russian St George Medal as mentioned earlier would be a good match. Edited 2 October , 2019 by Andrew Upton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFT Posted 2 October , 2019 Author Share Posted 2 October , 2019 (edited) Many thanks Andrew. Evidence is certainly leaning toward the BWM & St George Medal. The four RAF sergeants awarded the silver St George Medal were :- 30258, Sgt Reeve; 25407, Sgt Young; 66305 Sgt Smith; and 313012, Sgt Armitage. Sgt Reeve and Sgt Young returned to the UK, 2 Sept 1919. Photo dates to 19 Sept 1919, consequently these two individuals are excluded. As a former RNAS serviceman it is highly unlikely Sgt Armitage would have been issued with a RFC uniform! Which leaves me with Sgt Frederick John Smith! Although Sgt Smith's RFC record of service is available online, the section relating to his military history is silent. Additionally it does not give mention to medal awards including the BWM, VM and Medal of St George. His war service in Russia would certainly have gained him the BWM & VM (if not awarded elsewhere). Award of the St George Medal is contained in the squadron records and also in the "Order to the Caucasian Army, No 269 dated 7 Aug 1919 - Tsaritsin" (written in Russian, this document also makes reference to Sgt Armitage). Thanks to all who contributed to this topic. Rob Edited 2 October , 2019 by RFT Spelling error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmsk212 Posted 2 October , 2019 Share Posted 2 October , 2019 Hi Re:- Sgt A Reeve - A different Service number but a Sgt A Reeve who served with 47 Squadron. From Gazetted Awards to N C O s and other Ranks of the Aerial Forces 1914 - 1924 By Bernard Austerberry Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmsk212 Posted 2 October , 2019 Share Posted 2 October , 2019 (edited) And this is what it gives for 66305 Sgt F J Smith :- Steve Edited 2 October , 2019 by hmsk212 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmsk212 Posted 2 October , 2019 Share Posted 2 October , 2019 Plus Armitage & Young :- Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFT Posted 2 October , 2019 Author Share Posted 2 October , 2019 Thanks for posting the Bernard Austerberry entries. The name of Sgt A Reeve/s (with and without an 's') appears in the 47 Squadron records as service no. 30258. I could not locate a service record under that number but did find mention of Flt Sgt A Reeve (minus the 's') under 30248 and which makes mention of his service with 47 Squadron! Clearly I need to obtain the service record for 48008 Sgt A Reeve, to finally resolve this matter. Sgt F J Smith - Good to see mention of the French Medaille d'Honneur (with Swords, Bronze). That was certainly news to me. Flt Sgt P Armitage - As earlier mentioned - The Russian St George Medal should also be added to his medal tally. Sgt J H Young - Reclassified Sgt 1/1/1919. Also MID by C. I. C., B.S.F. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_history_buff Posted 2 October , 2019 Share Posted 2 October , 2019 I see 48008 Sergeant Arthur Reeve was born in 1877, so one question is whether the man in the photo looks like he is 42. He looks a bit like Jack Lord from Hawaii-5-0 to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 2 October , 2019 Admin Share Posted 2 October , 2019 Rob If you have access to FMP his record can be seen here 48008 First name Arthur, born 1877 and occupation Clerk. He, however was with the BEF in France until transferred to Home Establishment in 1919... ...so not your man. Regards David Edit - he died in 1920. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFT Posted 2 October , 2019 Author Share Posted 2 October , 2019 Thanks David. At this present time I do not have access to FMP. Assuming you have access to the record - Is there any mention of 47 Squadron and date discharged RAF? Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFT Posted 2 October , 2019 Author Share Posted 2 October , 2019 22 minutes ago, Keith_history_buff said: I see 48008 Sergeant Arthur Reeve was born in 1877, so one question is whether the man in the photo looks like he is 42. He looks a bit like Jack Lord from Hawaii-5-0 to me. Luckily for me I am old enough to have forgotten Jack Lord (and Hawaii Five O, oh and Danno!). Lord also made an appearance as Felix Leiter in an early Bond film! Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 2 October , 2019 Admin Share Posted 2 October , 2019 Rob Re 48008 Arthur Reeve - no mention of 47 Squadron - he appears to have spent his time in the UK after attestation in 1916 until sent to BEF France on 20/6/1918 until 12/1/1919. He was transferred to RAF Reserve on 9/2/1919 and died 30/4/1920. He was MID - the date not clear of his gazette entry but January 1919. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFT Posted 2 October , 2019 Author Share Posted 2 October , 2019 (edited) Much obliged David. Removing 48008 from the equation leaves us with 30248 Sgt Arthur Reeve. Rob Edited 2 October , 2019 by RFT Updated text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 2 October , 2019 Admin Share Posted 2 October , 2019 48008 was entitled to BWM and VM with oak leaf clasp only according to his record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_history_buff Posted 11 May , 2020 Share Posted 11 May , 2020 I've been amazed to see that there are hundreds of rolls that were compiled by the Air Historical Branch that are now located at Kew. Presumably you made use of: 47 Squadron R.A.F. Nominal roll in South Russia: All ranks. (Reference: AIR 1/1666/204/99/12) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFT Posted 11 May , 2020 Author Share Posted 11 May , 2020 Hello Keith _ Thanks for your post. Many years ago I purchased a copy of the Squadron's Nominal Roll and while this was certainly invaluable it is far from exhaustive. Actual numbers far exceed those listed. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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