Hallibag Posted 21 September , 2019 Share Posted 21 September , 2019 New member, here, and I’m hoping that some of you might be kind enough to share your thoughts with me about a Brodie Mk.I helmet that I have. As you’ll see in the photos, it’s stamped FKS 25 and has what I believe is its original chinstrap, and most of its liner (what the mice didn’t eat, anyway!). I guess what I’m wondering is, does this helmet look like a legit WWI helmet and, if so, what year would it date to? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 21 September , 2019 Share Posted 21 September , 2019 (edited) Hallibag, Welcome to the forum! I’m no expert, but having surveyed many of these on this site and also on-line auction sites, it seems to me to be entirely consistent with other Great War Brodie helmets. FKS 25 is a recognized stamp, where FKS = Thomas Firth Co. and 25 is the batch of steel from which the helmet was manufactured. It is British-made. If placed on a flat surface, with the straps and rings tucked carefully inside the shell, it should rock backwards and forwards slightly. If you post some accurate dimensions (length, width, height of crown and weight) they can be compared to specs. I’m sure that others more expert than myself will be along to comment. Regards, JMB Edited 21 September , 2019 by JMB1943 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hallibag Posted 21 September , 2019 Author Share Posted 21 September , 2019 (edited) Thank you for your reply, JMB1943! Yes, the helmet does rock back and forth a little - fore and aft - on a flat surface. As for the dimensions, using a tape measure, width is 299mm and length is 310mm (I hope metric is okay). I couldn’t figure out a way to accurately measure height. Oh, almost forgot - weight is 939 grams. Edited 21 September , 2019 by Hallibag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 21 September , 2019 Share Posted 21 September , 2019 Looks fine to me, same textured finish as mine, red Brodie stamp on inside or rexine liner and you can can see the remnants of the paper label under the main rivet, but please be cautious as the white asbestos pad has lost its covering and is exposed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hallibag Posted 21 September , 2019 Author Share Posted 21 September , 2019 Okay, thank you Dave66. I will be careful with the asbestos! Now, the leather in my helmet’s liner is brown, but wasn’t this usually black? I could be wrong, of course... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 21 September , 2019 Share Posted 21 September , 2019 I asked about dimensions because there was a thread on GWF in Jan. 2011 where these were surveyed. For rimmed, L= 305 - 310 mm; W = 292 - 297 mm, so your helmet is right there. The height IS a devil to measure, isn’t it!. Range was H = 119 - 123 mm. I will have to let somebody else comment on the weight! Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hallibag Posted 21 September , 2019 Author Share Posted 21 September , 2019 That’s good news about the dimensions, JMB. Thank you! I will look up that thread from 2011 that you mention. Now that it’s looking like this helmet is legit, I’m wondering if it is missing its rubber “doughnut” or if, perhaps, it never had one to begin with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 22 September , 2019 Share Posted 22 September , 2019 Having read a number of other threads relating to Brodies I still haven't picked up the reason for having asbestos in the shell, could an expert please explain. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 22 September , 2019 Share Posted 22 September , 2019 3 hours ago, mancpal said: Having read a number of other threads relating to Brodies I still haven't picked up the reason for having asbestos in the shell, could an expert please explain. Simon I have never seen this in print, but my speculation is that it is due to the rather unique combination of properties of asbestos. It is fire-proof, and can be fashioned into any desired shape because of its fibrous nature. Given that shell splinters etc were hot, perhaps the purpose was to protect the hair and scalp in case of penetration of the shell. Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 22 September , 2019 Share Posted 22 September , 2019 14 hours ago, JMB1943 said: FKS 25 is a recognized stamp, where FKS = Thomas Firth Co. and 25 is the batch of steel from which the helmet was manufactured. It is British-made. I was reading back through some of the earlier Brodie threads, and now realize that FKS = Thomas Firth Co. is an assumption on my part, given that FS is known to be the stamp for Firth. Is the assumption true? There was also discussion as to whether the number was strictly a batch number or was a reference to the furnace heat or run-time. Was that ever decided conclusively? Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hallibag Posted 22 September , 2019 Author Share Posted 22 September , 2019 JMB, I’ve been doing quite a bit of research on these helmets and it seems to me that FKS is still generally believed to be Thomas Firth & Co. but nobody has been able to prove it. As for the number, in official documents it’s referred to as a “cast number”, though I’m not sure what exactly that means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 22 September , 2019 Share Posted 22 September , 2019 JMB, if the asbestos was used to protect the scalp, how did the authorities plan to protect the rest of the soldier I wonder. I also wonder should a red hot piece of shrapnel smash through the steel Brodie shell what good would asbestos be, after all it’s better known for its fire resistance than its bomb proof qualities. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 22 September , 2019 Share Posted 22 September , 2019 (edited) Simon, I take your point, but the asbestos pad was deliberately included in the design for a reason and the fire-proof property is the only thing that to me differentiates asbestos from any other material. Certainly it was not there as a shock absorber, so difficult to think of other appropriate reasons. Regards, JMB Edited 22 September , 2019 by JMB1943 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 22 September , 2019 Share Posted 22 September , 2019 57 minutes ago, Hallibag said: JMB, I’ve been doing quite a bit of research on these helmets and it seems to me that FKS is still generally believed to be Thomas Firth & Co. but nobody has been able to prove it. As for the number, in official documents it’s referred to as a “cast number”, though I’m not sure what exactly that means. The situation is a little like everyone generally believes it to be Firth, because everyone generally....... I tend to incline towards Firth simply because Firth and Hadfield were at the time the world’s two largest steel producers and it would be almost unnatural if FS and FKS referred to different companies. Somewhere here on GWF I think that I have seen reference to “cast” steel being preferred to other types of steel, for Bayonets/swords etc. I would be interested to see any official documents regarding manufacture of these helmets. Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pierssc Posted 23 September , 2019 Share Posted 23 September , 2019 Regarding the use of asbestos, could it be to insulate the head of the soldier from either a very hot or very cold helmet and/or absorb sweat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 23 September , 2019 Share Posted 23 September , 2019 1 hour ago, pierssc said: Regarding the use of asbestos, could it be to insulate the head of the soldier from either a very hot or very cold helmet and/or absorb sweat? My understanding was the same - to try and protect the head from extremes of heat and cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T8HANTS Posted 23 September , 2019 Share Posted 23 September , 2019 Have you ever put on a steel helmet that has been out in the sun for even a few minutes it becomes a small oven. Took mine off during the assembly for a commemoration and left it on a car bonnet. Orders came to get into line, don's hat, B.H was that hot!! Full wool service dress was no bother though, if I remember we were told the temperature was 32, kids in tee shirts were fainting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 23 September , 2019 Share Posted 23 September , 2019 7 hours ago, pierssc said: Regarding the use of asbestos, could it be to insulate the head of the soldier from either a very hot or very cold helmet and/or absorb sweat? Yes, but so could any number of more readily available cotton/woolen materials. Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pierssc Posted 24 September , 2019 Share Posted 24 September , 2019 8 hours ago, JMB1943 said: Yes, but so could any number of more readily available cotton/woolen materials. Regards, JMB Don't think they have quite the same insulation properties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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