Jump to content
Free downloads from TNA ×
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Albert Ernest Ganner, Royal Marine Light Infantry


MoodieCheshire

Recommended Posts

My Great Grandfather

Private Albert Ernest Ganner 12743 Royal Marine Light Infantry was awarded the French Medaille Militaire in WW1 at Gallipoli.

I have without any luck tried to find out, how / why he was awarded it! 

My Mother and Uncle have told me, he had a  citation for the medal and I have a copy of the London Gazette naming him for the award.

I have his service record showing when his medals were awarded.

I have been to the Royal Marine Museum in Portsmouth where it's displayed and spoken to the  archivists there. But was told that the records were kept at the National Records office 

i have been to the national Records Office and found further paper work for his time in service but nothing to help answer my question! 

I have a copy of the Long Long Trail, also a book called Liverpool heroes book four. Which talks about a VC awarded to someone he fought in the same style at Gallipoli. But again nothing.

if anyone could point me in another direction or help further with this I would be very grateful for their help.

Regards Darren

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Moodie,   Welcome to the forum.  Have you tried the war diaries on ancestry ?  they may help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

darren

There is a newspaper clipping (Findmypast) that needs a sub to see it but here is the heading. Might be helpful but predates Gallipoli by quite a bit ?

 

346928646_GWFGannerAERMLI1914newspaper.JPG.a63af82425cd4f47e73fa3cc52d8649b.JPG

 

Charlie

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Where was your ggf from?

You know that the award was made when he was at Gallipoli in 1915, so your best bet would be looking at the local newspapers in the weeks before and after the date it was published in the London Gazette.

 

BillyH.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Darren,

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

My memory isn't the best, but I seem to recall a thread a couple of years ago where someone had some success by writing to the French embassy, who forwarded their query to the appropriate department in France. I might be wrong though.

 

Regards

Chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Charlie 692 

that my Great Grandfather, Brierley Hill is where he was born and lived! Before moving to Portsmouth!,

That's blown me away, how quick I have had help from people already ! 

He was Acting Lance Corporal, I can read that in his records. I'm guessing due to his officer being wounded / killed! 

Im guessing I could look up that date on the London gazette and get the full article? 

Thank you once again

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • RussT changed the title to Albert Ernest Ganner, Royal Marine Light Infantry

Clk

thank you also I have started that process only just this weekend gone! But my French is none  existence and is only progressing due to the fact that I work in a school with a language teacher. 

Edited by MoodieCheshire
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, MoodieCheshire said:

Im guessing I could look up that date on the London gazette and get the full article? 

The London gazette is dated October1920 and merely says for 'Distinguished services during  the war'. No more detail.

 

How do you know it was for Gallipoli ?

 

10 minutes ago, MoodieCheshire said:

and get the full article?

The article for which I provided an extract is available through 'British Newspaper Archive' or  through 'FindmyPast'. Both are paying subscriber sites. Your local library may just have free access ?

 

Charlie

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Charlie 962 

the photocopy I have of the London gazette is dated 5/oct/1920 and shows him as a recipient of the Medaille Millitaire! 

I know from his records he was at Gallipoli, and that was what family has  suggested that's what it could have been for !

but he was also at Antwerp as his records state that .

It say Defence of Antwerp dated 13/10/1914

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, MoodieCheshire said:

I know from his records he was at Gallipoli, and that was what family has  suggested that's what it could have been for !

Since he served in the Royal Naval Division (RND) from September 1914 to early 1916 (in action at Antwerp and at Gallipoli) and then served to mid-1919 at Malta (HMS EGMONT) I think it can be dafely assumed that the award was for service in the RND. He was awarded a GOC RND "Certificate for Zeal and Devotion to Duty" a Gallipoli and this could be the peg upon which was hanged his Med Mil (France) in 1920.  'Distinguished services during  the war' means just that: it could also cover his service at Malta.

He was one of 26 recipients of the Med Mil (France) in the RMLI and RMA.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Member ForeignGong might just be able to help, I will message him and ask him to look at this one.

 

BillyH.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Admin

There is a note on his record under the heading Medals Clasps &c -  date received 17.1.1916 chronologically the Medaille Militaire is shown as his first award, so if the entries were made in sequence, yes for service in Gallipoli.  The award predates his LS&GC medal in 1918 and the subsequent award of the ‘war medals’.

 

Unlike British awards which in the Army passed up the chain of command, foreign awards came down the chain and were often awarded where a British award had not been approved.  It probably was awarded along with, or for the actions meriting the certificate mentioned above.  There are few citations for foreign awards, as suggested by Horatio above, ‘for distinguished service’ is probably the best you will get.  Although there were retrospective awards of the British Military Medal this was not instituted until 1916.  He may, for example, have been recommended for a DCM in 1915, but in spite of his obvious bravery not every recommendation was successful but was recognised by his C.O. when the opportunity arose.

 

Ken

Link to comment
Share on other sites

KenF48

thank you for your help.

im guessing from what you have said their no way to find out if he was ever offered / even put forward for the DCM ?

and I'm aware of his Rose and Clasp of which I am / was also going to try and figure out! 

Your help has very useful.

regards Darren

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Admin
1 hour ago, MoodieCheshire said:

KenF48

thank you for your help.

im guessing from what you have said their no way to find out if he was ever offered / even put forward for the DCM ?

and I'm aware of his Rose and Clasp of which I am / was also going to try and figure out! 

Your help has very useful.

regards Darren

 

 

If he was in the Army probably not, I don't know about the RMLI. There was a card index to foreign awards but this was destroyed in the Arnside Warehouse fire

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/the-1940-fire-at-arnside-street/. I don't know if the Admiralty had a similar index which survived.

 

Clasp and Roses was an addition to the 1914 Star, as explained on the LLT here

 

Ken

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, kenf48 said:

He may, for example, have been recommended for a DCM in 1915

This is most unlikely since, in 1915, the RND still came under the naval awards system and the recommendation would have been for a DSM, if anything. Thre were a couple of DCM awards in late 1915 but these were to men of the RMA serving in the BEF. The first naval (RMLI) award of the DCM was gazetted in November 1916 when the RND was in the BEF.

Edited by horatio2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, horatio2 said:

He was awarded a GOC RND "Certificate for Zeal and Devotion to Duty"

Note that there were two types of Certificate awarded by GOC RND at Gallipoli. The other one was the "Certificate for Courageous and Gallant Conduct". The difference between the two certificates is obvious: 'good work' and 'gallantry'. Given the award of the 'good work' certificate to this man, a recommendation for a gallantry medal is very unlikely. The best he could hope for would be a Mention in Despatches and he did not get that. Rcognition of his 'all-round good egg' service came after the war.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Admin
6 hours ago, horatio2 said:

Note that there were two types of Certificate awarded by GOC RND at Gallipoli. The other one was the "Certificate for Courageous and Gallant Conduct". The difference between the two certificates is obvious: 'good work' and 'gallantry'. Given the award of the 'good work' certificate to this man, a recommendation for a gallantry medal is very unlikely. The best he could hope for would be a Mention in Despatches and he did not get that. Rcognition of his 'all-round good egg' service came after the war.

 

Thank you for the correction, acknowledging your expertise it looks as though he was evacuated from the Peninsula on the 27th September 1915.  Unfortunately recognition for all round service after the war would show the medal was received at that time, that is after the LS &GC (January 1918) and the 1914 Star (September 1919).  

 

These post war Gazette entries were often 'clearing up' entries though to confirm that would require a more detailed analysis. However, the highly decorated Robert MacDowall received his MM the same date, closely followed by a mention and, as you point out the DSM. The entry for Milne (also Portsmouth) has a /16 entry but not so clear, he too was also awarded the Military Medal later. A couple of the other records are unclear but refer to a RMO ** /16 presumably the equivalent of Army Routine Orders.  It therefore appears these awards do refer back to Gallipoli even though they were not published until 1920.  Incidentally Pte. Ganner is the only Private in the list, the rest are NCOs/WO, which does suggest the medals were awarded for 'good work' but we can't be certain. One of the medals went to a man in the medical unit.

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/32074/page/9694

 

Screenshot 2019-09-18 at 10.29.36.png

 (extract from record on FMP)

 

In the original post Darren mentions a VC 'to someone he fought in the same style"(?) The only RMLI VC in this period was to L/Cpl Walter Parker who was in charge of the stretcher bearers.https://www.naval-history.net/WW1MedalsBr-VC.htm  Was Pte Ganner, already a veteran, a stretcher bearer? Incidentally the VC was not promulgated in the Gazette until June 1917.

 

The date the Certificate was awarded is shown on his record as the 22nd July.  This post dates an action on the 13th July when all officers of the Portsmouth Battalion, save one were killed or wounded.  On the 27th July the R.M. Brigade was reorganised.  The diary indicates they were in close contact with the French and elsewhere there are relatively rare instances of French Commanders awarding medals 'in the field' on the recommendation of British senior officers.  This is usually mentioned in the war diaries. Unfortunately the online war diaries of the RND are incomplete.

 

Medals and other forms of recognition were usually awarded at a parade, if the recipient was able to attend.  The only mention of such a parade I could find was in the Signal Company Diary which noted the GOC presented certificates for both 'zeal' and 'gallantry' to men of that Company on the 19th January 1916. The Division had withdrawn from the Peninsula and was at the RND Camp on Mudros, and on the 1st February the same diary notes a detachment marched to a parade by the G.O.C. for the presentation of medals.

 

Whether or not your man was on Mudros (his record shows MEF) around this time, we don't know, however the 17th January 1916 date shown on his record would seem to accord with that period after the evacuation.

 

Perhaps Horatio could confirm the 'Certificate for zeal' was awarded to stretcher bearers who showed great courage and steadfastness if no outright 'gallantry'.

 

Ken

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, kenf48 said:

Perhaps Horatio could confirm the 'Certificate for zeal' was awarded to stretcher bearers who showed great courage and steadfastness if no outright 'gallantry'.

A quick check for GOC Certificates awarded to men of the RMMU at Gallipoli (but be aware that stretcher bearers came from battalions as well as from the RMMU) shows seven certifcates for 'Zeal and Devotion to Duty' and two for 'Courageous and Gallant Conduct'.

 

The RND Divisional war diary has an entry for 17 January 1916 at Mudros "Presentation of French Honours by General BREULARD." This now ties in with 17/1/16 date on the record (Post#22). HOORAY!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Admin
1 hour ago, horatio2 said:

A quick check for GOC Certificates awarded to men of the RMMU at Gallipoli (but be aware that stretcher bearers came from battalions as well as from the RMMU) shows seven certifcates for 'Zeal and Devotion to Duty' and two for 'Courageous and Gallant Conduct'.

 

The RND Divisional war diary has an entry for 17 January 1916 at Mudros "Presentation of French Honours by General BREULARD." This now ties in with 17/1/16 date on the record (Post#22). HOORAY!

 

Well spotted!  At least that date is hammered down, as to whether or not he was one of the bearers, still a bit speculative but your Certificate stats would seem to illustrate it was possible.

 

Ken

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, kenf48 said:

it looks as though he was evacuated from the Peninsula on the 27th September 1915.

That may be the case (no details of wounds/sickness) but the next entry appears to be "ME Force" from 28 Sep, which could place him at Mudros for treatment but I cannot read the next date. He appears to be borne on the books of EGMONT from 17 Jan 16 (?) so that could be his last day at Mudros.

 

It would be interesting to know if an Army Form B.103 is in his ADM 157 papers at Kew - https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C16633916  That should give more detail. Pergaps the OP got them from his Kew visit?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...