War Diary - Didn’t expect that !

[gmac101]

On 04/11/2016 at 14:48, rolt968 said:

Until the Marriage Scotland Act (1939) there were a number of methods of irregular marriage in Scotland. (Until 1 Jan 1940 as far as I remember the only "regular" method of marriage was the religious ceremony or equivalent.) Most importantly irregular did not mean invalid or illegal. It was sometimes just more difficult to prove.

In this case the following are interesting:

1. By declaration in front of two witnesses

2. Contracted by correspondence

3. By cohabitation habit and repute

4. Conditional on consumation

I have never actually run across 2 and 4; I think Mrs Young might have had a good case under more than one of the above.

 

Is there anything in the newspapers?

 

Roger M

 

There is indeed 27 March 1918 - Daily Record. I will summarise shortly

 

As he was of Scottish heritage he may have contracted an irregular marriage as per above (no doubt not legal in England or Canada) and that was why his “wife” couldn’t put her hand on the marriage certificate 

[paul.pengelly]

David.

 Thanks for that link as I couldn’t find anything other than the same “cut and paste” criteria that appears on all searches,nice to see what actually went on in parliament regarding instigation of the MM

.Especially their concerns of increased cost of yet another medal ,which was deflected with the news it would be cheaper to produce than the DCM and therefore cost effective as there would less call for DCMs to be awarded with this new lower level of medal being introduced.

Interesting and touchy subject  which I see you took part in on the original National Archives forum.

It certainly  was a different world 100 years ago, the  press today would have a field day !

 

Paul

[paul.pengelly]

gmac101

Thanks for that info it was not something I had come across before ,(all my ancestors being from England/Wales ) .Interesting “definitions” sounds like a common -law marriage.

I wondered if it was something to do with emigration restrictions to North America whenever they went over?.Or they were actually blood relatives,pretending to be married?

Interesting that he reverts back to his true name the same day he is awarded the MM according to his service record .

 

[rolt968]

20 hours ago, gmac101 said:

As he was of Scottish heritage he may have contracted an irregular marriage as per above (no doubt not legal in England or Canada) and that was why his “wife” couldn’t put her hand on the marriage certificate 

A Scottish irregular marriage would certainly be valid in England (otherwise no point in couples going to Gretna) and I don't see why it shouldn't be accepted in Canada. The difficulty was proving the marriage if it had not had been registered or recorded in some way. Marriages by declaration were being registered (with the names of witnesses) by 1914, I think.

RM

[paul.pengelly]

rolt968, Thanks for that ,there does seem some  “confusion” as to the marriage as in where and if it took place.

 

Had a look round on what free sites I could find,

James was born 1885 in  Plumstead ,his wife was Georgina Rennie born 1890 in Aldershot.No marriage on BMD.

He attests in Toronto 1916

Couldnt find them on 1911 Canadian census,but found a family tree that shows a daughter Rita born 1912(no p.o.b) son Robert 1914 Toronto,daughter Lorraine 1920 (no p.o.b)

They are in Toronto on1921 census allthough not Lorraine ? perhaps born later that year? ,James lists his occupation as  a Crane man in a Steel Plant, he dies in 1962 Niagra Falls Ontario. Still no closer to understanding why he named himself after his Uncle

 

Been through the rest of the family tree looking for a living member to pass this information onto but nothing ....yet.

 

His brother Cpl Thomas  David McAra C/9587 20th Battalion King’s Royal Rifle Corps was killed on 19th June 1917,and is buried at Duisans British  Cemetery  

 

 

Edited 18 November , 2019 by paul.pengelly
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[David_Underdown]

22 hours ago, rolt968 said:

A Scottish irregular marriage would certainly be valid in England (otherwise no point in couples going to Gretna) and I don't see why it shouldn't be accepted in Canada. The difficulty was proving the marriage if it had not had been registered or recorded in some way. Marriages by declaration were being registered (with the names of witnesses) by 1914, I think.

RM

True - but one of the other reasons for travelling to Scotland was the differences in relation to the age of consent, in England below the age of majority (21 until the ?1960s) you needed parents' permission to marry. The rules were different in Scotland I believe.

[rolt968]

59 minutes ago, David_Underdown said:

True - but one of the other reasons for travelling to Scotland was the differences in relation to the age of consent, in England below the age of majority (21 until the ?1960s) you needed parents' permission to marry. The rules were different in Scotland I believe.

Correct.

 

Parents' consent was not required if the couple were of age to marry. There was an attempt to slow things down by requiring both parts to be resident in Scotland for twenty one days. I read somewhere that the vast majority of couples actually "disappeared" into one of the cities where they were more difficult to find rather than get married in Gretna (or Coldstream - which is less well known for some reason.)

RM

[paul.pengelly]

Found it they were married! In England

 

Working backwards from his wife and because it’s after 1911? her spouse is shown, saves putting in *wildcards** to cover all the different spelling variables of McAra

 

Georgina Rennie married James Macara March 1912 Woolwich 1d 1339

[paul.pengelly]

Now don’t you wish all diaries were like this ,Recomended for Medals page

6th Field Company Canadian Engineers

[gmac101]

On 17/11/2019 at 16:52, rolt968 said:

A Scottish irregular marriage would certainly be valid in England (otherwise no point in couples going to Gretna) and I don't see why it shouldn't be accepted in Canada. The difficulty was proving the marriage if it had not had been registered or recorded in some way. Marriages by declaration were being registered (with the names of witnesses) by 1914, I think.

RM

 

What I should have said was - with his Scottish heritage he may of felt that contracting an irregular marriage in England or Canada was sufficient for him and his wife but that marriage would have not been a legal marriage in either of those countries  - of course my theory has been proved wrong and he and his wife had an arranged a regular marriage in England 

[paul.pengelly]

gmac101,rolt968;David_Underdown. Thanks for the help on the “missing “wedding and the whole Scottish differances something to file away in my  memory banks for future reference .

 

 

The two men recommended for medals in the 6th Field Company ,Canadian Engineers War Diary both received their medals (possibly)(possibly not)

 

Corporal A.M. Morrison  606 looks to be Cpl/Lt/Capt Arthur Mc Intyre Morrison  DCM 1916/06/03,Mentioned in Dispatches 1916/06/21,& 1917/12/28 and Military Cross 1919/01/01 

 

Date for DCM is six months of the date when he was recommended for ? So possibly he got  the second MID for it instead?

Have eventually found his service record but as usual it contains more medical  and pay sheets than anything else.And the service records are overwritten again and again so you would need to blow up to the size of a wall to see what it says.

 

 

Lance Corporal Scott C.C 652,is possibly listed as Sapper Cambell. C.Scott who gets a M.M 1916/08/10 ,there is no date for when the recommended action took place so maybe it’s right.

 

New Years Day Honours1919 were they “different” to other honours awarded?

 

 

 

 

[David_Underdown]

For the Military Cross an award in a New Year or King's Birthday Honours list implies it was for general good work, rather than in relation to a specific act of gallantry.

[paul.pengelly]

Thanks that’s what I had a sneaky suspicion might be what happened.

I suppose that the 1919 New Years Day Honours list could have been particularly bad for that.

Wonder how the figures compare with other years ?,would there have been any directives sent out relaxing the “specific acts of gallantry” criteria for a more “accumulative” approach to a mans conduct facing the enemy.

 

    However this  man looks like a worthy recipient for a  Medal in  that he already had a DCM,and 2 Mentioned in Dispatches so his good work had   previously been recognised .Although I have failed to find anything in the war diaries apart from the  above recommendation ,but still looking.

Edited 21 November , 2019 by paul.pengelly
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[paul.pengelly]

Further to post  59

Lance Corporal Scott C.C 652,

 Campbell Craig Scott 652,6th Field Coy C.E,was awarded the M.M 8th June1916,cannot find anything in diaries about him

apart from 16th May 1916  L/Cpl Scott no 652 paraded before GOC Canadian Infantry Bde re commission in Inf.

 

He goes to 27th Btn (6th Inf )  makes Lt and is killed in fierce fighting in an attack near Fresnoy 3/5/1917 the Btn had 250 casualties out of 500 all ranks ,he is commemorated on the Vimy Memorial

[paul.pengelly]

While looking for Lt Scott in the 27th Battalion (6th Canadian Infantry) war diaries came across the following maps for an assault on the line near Neuville St Vaast,great detail on the “In and Out” map.Hopefully might be of help to somebody .

[paul.pengelly]

Extremely detailed map of St Nicholas (St-Nicolas) suburb/north of Arras ,1st Canadian Field Ambulance MDS 1918

[paul.pengelly]

Had a closer look and number 17 is the Mortuary  (far right on the middle map) is hidden behind, accessed from the  “Flower beds”.

 

There is a CWGC cemetery in St Nicolas but is outside of the “village” so probably not anywhere near the mortuary. The old map and current map do not seem to line up in anyway so difficult to compare and not helped by the fact the old map is “upside down” ,north at the bottom!

[paul.pengelly]

This puts in perspective those times when you curse at those missing pages in a war diary .

 

 

[paul.pengelly]

Unusual Sketch Maps with contour lines ,of Wieltje area between St Julienne and St Jean,April-May 1915.

Showing the infamous Shell Trap /Mouse/Canadian Farm (above Wieltje) and rapidly changing situation

 

The grid lines were added 13 years later in November 1928 ,was somebody doing a Divisional/unit  history?

 

[paul.pengelly]

Same diary appendices showing hastily arranged defensive positions around Wieltje

[paul.pengelly]

It was only fairly recently that I had read (on here ) that early trenches were lots of separate trenches ,not one continuous line with connecting support trenches,2nd lines etc etc,but couldn’t quite get my head round it.

 

Then found this early map of Shrewsbury Forest area  it shows 73 trenches ,15 in one map square ! if that was not confusing ,they seemed to be re numbering them .

 

”Trenches 26 & 27 were also numbered 1,And trenches 28 to 73 numbered 2 to 25,trench 63 was 17 “  And you thought Trench names were confusing.

 

[paul.pengelly]

I think it’s near enough now to post these Christmas Day menus ,looks like they really made a fantastic effort to ensure the men enjoyed the day as much as possible.

 

 

[paul.pengelly]

Not what they were expecting.....”An amusing incident occurred at the Yuletide season”

[paul.pengelly]

Obviously bit of a slow period for the diarist........

[paul.pengelly]

May 19th 1915 ........”Received information that 3 Canadian soldiers were onboard a Merchant ship bound for England.....“

couldn’t find any follow up so don’t know what happened to them and none of them had a distinctive enough name to trace through their service records so don’t know if they were Court Martialed or not.