Jump to content
Great War Forum

Remembered Today:

laughton

New Irish Farm Cemetery

Recommended Posts

laughton

I had never looked up the details on the locations of the smaller cemeteries concentrated into the New Irish Farm Cemetery. Thanks to @MelPack for giving me the "kick start". First thing I noticed was the conflict in what the CWGC says about the location of the original Irish Farm Cemetery versus the coordinates where the remains were recovered. It does not appear the results for the existing cemetery have been updated with details on the more recent remains recovered and buried in that cemetery. It appears the seven (7) with Walker are in Plot IV.BB buried 18 April 2018. I am not sure where (which graves) the other nineteen (19) were buried 28 September 2017. Mel probably knows. I found most of the stories with a Goggle Search for "JCCC New Irish Farm Cemetery". The details on the nineteen (19) are in a topic here on the GWF: https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/238324-remains-of-19-soldiers-found/.

 

Interesting to look on Google Earth at New Irish Farm Cemetery and click on the history of the images. It goes back as far as 29 April 2007 where you can see the seven (7) rows A-G in Plot IV. It does not appear to change until 18 July 2016 when the three (3) graves appear in Plot IV Row AA - who were they?. It would appear that is the last time the CWGC Cemetery Plan was updated, as it shows only the 3 graves in AA. The next Google Earth image of 16 April 2018 shows that Row AA has expanded to fourteen (14) graves - some of the nineteen? It also appear that there are lines drawn on the ground in the surrounding area - suggesting they are marking out the ground for Row BB. Three (3) days later on 19 April 2018 the seven (7) graves in Row BB appear and you can clearly see the red on the seven (7) coffins (this picture). Captain Walker is clearly in Plot IV Row BB Grave 7 and it appears that Grave 6 has the same unit image, plus a cap under the headstone. Was another New Zealander found with Captain Walker?

 

29 April 2007 18 July 2016 16 April 2018 19 April 2018
4-9-2007JPG.JPG.938948c6c12ab8c1b434746c6dd656cf.JPG 18-7-2016.JPG.077a25b5bb90bdecd67a81b2d66cacf7.JPG 4-16-2018.JPG.0dee5576ba0fd6433fbbea80dddbeb66.JPG 4-19-2018.JPG.02b645f09bb99147003b0233e8c566d6.JPG

 

The JCCC says that the group of 19 "were found following ground work at an industrial development at Briekestraat, Ypres in Belgium - the location thought to be the original Irish Farm site". I assume there that the reference is to the original Irish Farm Cemetery and not the Irish Farm itself? The information in the GWF post refers to them being found near Langemark Poelkapelle? In the second set of images that match the New Irish Farm Cemetery Images above, you can see the cemetery at the Hammond's Corners. You then see the appearance of what they called the "Industrial Development", which appears on the west side of the road (Briekestraat) just south of the expressway (was a railway in 1918). The indistrial facility is "Fluvius klantenkantoor Ieper", an electric utility company. The GPS location for the building is  50°52'13.66"N  2°53'51.20"E. On a trench map that matches 28.C.27.a.15.55 which is the location of the IRISH FARM, not the cemetery. See the CWGC details below about the location of the cemetery versus the farm - something not adding up here!

 

29 April 2007 - no building 24 August 2015 - bldg appearing 18 July 2016 - bldg present 19 April 2018
Bldg-29-4-2007.JPG.f7ebef4704e572ae2aaa2eed6b3ae3a7.JPG Bldg-24-8-2015.JPG.45e9cff4737cbb0e186f17285e537909.JPG Bldg-7-18-2016.JPG.083e645da75697283fb82508449cb6f9.JPG Bldg-19-4-2018.JPG.4a91160a467e3da13de213a42afef03f.JPG

 

The group of 7 are reported as: "During a planned archaeological dig on the western side of the village of St Julien in April 2016, human remains and artefacts dating from World War 1 were discovered. Capt Walker and the 6 unknown soldiers were found amongst a total of 38 casualties from various nationalities".

 

The trench maps show that the IRISH FARM proper is located at 28.C.27.a.2.6. There was also an Irish Farm Camp to the south at 28.C.27.a.1.1, so that would be about 300 yards south of the Irish Farm. The NEW IRISH FARM CEMETERY is reported to be at Hammond's Corner, 300 yards north of the farm. That clearly shows on the trench maps at 28.C.21.c.3.4. There is also a Hammond's Corner Camp a bit to the north.

Now back to the cemetery - I will look up the trench map coordinates for all the smaller cemeteries and add them later:

 

Quote

New Irish Farm Cemetery was first used from August to November 1917 and was named after a nearby farm, known to the troops as 'Irish Farm' (originally there was an Irish Farm Cemetery immediately South of the Farm. New Irish Farm Cemetery is about 300 metres North of the Farm at a crossing once known as Hammond's Corner). It was used again in April and May 1918 and at the Armistice it contained just 73 burials - the three irregular rows of Plot I - but was then greatly enlarged when more than 4,500 graves were brought in from the battlefields north-east of Ypres (now Ieper) and from the following smaller cemeteries: (green is my concept of the location)

 

  • ADMIRAL's CEMETERY, BOESINGHE - 28.C.15.c.8.7, at the junction of Admiral's Road and Boundary Road, near No Man's Cottage. It was named from a sailor long attached to the 6th Division. It contained the graves of 19 soldiers from the United Kingdom who fell in 1917 and 1918.
  • CANOPUS TRENCH CEMETERY, LANGEMARCK - 28.C.17.a.3.6, a little South-West of St. Julien, containing the graves of 12 men of the 1st/5th Gloucesters who fell in August, 1917.
  • COMEDY FARM CEMETERY, LANGEMARCK - 28.C.4.a.8.6, a little South-East of Langemarck village, near the Steenbeek. It contained the graves of 29 soldiers from the United Kingdom who fell in July-September, 1917.
  • CROSS ROADS CEMETERY, ST. JEAN - 28.C.17.d.2.3 , two groups of graves at the cross roads in St. Jean village, containing the graves of 19 soldiers from the United Kingdom who fell in June and July, 1915.
  • FERDINAND FARM CEMETERY, LANGEMARCK - 28.C.4.d.9.2, near the Steenbeek, half-way between St. Julien and Langemarck. It contained the graves of 15 soldiers from the United Kingdom who fell in August-October, 1917.
  • FRANCOIS FARM CEMETERY, LANGEMARCK, near a farm (Francois Farm 28.C.4) 1.6 Kms East of Pilckem, containing the graves of 23 soldiers from the United Kingdom who fell in July-October, 1917.
  • FUSILIER FARM CEMETERY, BOESINGHE (see next 400 yards SE), a little West of the Ypres-Pilckem road, containing the graves of 17 men of the 38th (Welsh) Division who fell on 31st July, 1917.
  • FUSILIER FARM ROAD CEMETERY, BOESINGHE - 28.C.13.b.9.1 , 400 yards North-West of Fusilier Farm Cemetery. It contained the graves of 14 men of the 38th (Welsh) Division who fell on 31st July-2nd August, 1917.
  • GLIMPSE COTTAGE CEMETERY, BOESINGHE - 28.C.13.b.5.4, 250 metres North-West of Fusilier Farm Road Cemetery, containing the graves of 18 men of the 38th (Welsh) division who fell in July and August, 1917.
  • IRISH FARM CEMETERY, ST. JEAN - 28.C.27.a.2.5, immediately South of the Farm. It was begun by the 1st Royal Fusiliers in May, 1915, and used until September, 1915, and, at intervals, until January, 1918. It contained the graves of 54 soldiers from the United Kingdom.
    These are reported as the concentration documents for 28.C.21.c.1.1 but that is not immediately south of the farm that is north of the farm more in line with the NEW cemetery?
    The DAL (David Avery List) has New Irish Farm, St. Jean at
    28.C.21.c.2.2 and Irish Farm, St. Jean at 28.C.27.a.2.5
    That would mean that the COG-BR below were for men that were moved from the border of the new cemetery?

    doc2129163.JPG

    doc2129163.JPG

    doc2129164.JPG

    doc2129164.JPG

    doc2129165.JPG

    doc2129165.JPG

     

  • LA MITERIE GERMAN CEMETERY, LOMME, a little North of the hamlet of La Miterie (Lomme 36.J.27 and La Miterie 36.J.28), containing the graves of eight soldiers from the United Kingdom who fell early in September, 1918.

  • MIRFIELD CEMETERY, BOESINGHE - 28.C.14.c.00.35, by Mirfield Trench, 300 metres west of Fusilier Farm, containing the graves of 16 soldiers from the United Kingdom (all but one of the 51st (Highland) Division) who fell in June-August, 1917.

  • PARATONNIERS FARM CEMETERY, BOESINGHE - 28.T.28.d.1.8, a Belgian Military Cemetery, 800 metres South of Lizerne village, containing the graves of 13 soldiers from the United Kingdom who fell in December, 1917-March, 1918.

  • PILCKEM ROAD CEMETERY, BOESINGHE - 28.C.14.c.8.8, 300 metres North-West of Fusilier Farm, containing the graves of 27 soldiers from the United Kingdom, (18 of the 1st/5th Gordons) who fell in July-August, 1917.
  • ST. JEAN CHURCHYARD - probably "Cemetery near the Church" 28.I.3.a.9.8, containing the graves of 44 soldiers from the United Kingdom who fell in May-December, 1915.
  • SPREE FARM CEMETERY, LANGEMARCK - 28.C.18.d.0.4, 800 metres South-East of St. Julien, containing the graves of 14 soldiers from the United Kingdom and three from New Zealand who fell in August and October, 1917. metres South-West of St. Julien, containing the graves of 22 soldiers from the United Kingdom and one from New Zealand who fell in August and October, 1917.
  • VANHEULE FARM CEMETERY, LANGEMARCK - 28.C.17.d.2.7, 800 metres South-West of St. Julien, containing the graves of 22 soldiers from the United Kingdom and one from New Zealand who fell in August and October, 1917. 
  • YORKSHIRE CEMETERY, ZOUAVE VILLA, ST. JEAN - 28.C.20.c.8.2, 200 metres East of the Ypres-Pilckem road, containing the graves of 22 men of the 6th King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry who fell in January and February, 1916, and two of the 6th East Yorks who fell in August, 1917.

There are now 4,719 commonwealth servicemen of the First World War buried or commemorated in this cemetery. 3,271 of the burials are unidentified, but special memorials commemorate four casualties known or believed to be buried among them. Other special memorials record the names of 30 casualties buried in four of the cemeteries removed to New Irish Farm whose graves were destroyed by shell fire. 

 

 

Edited by laughton
Updating details as noted ....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
laughton

So far I have not found the COG-BR for Irish Farm Cemetery - the original cemetery. I did notice, however that this one COG-BR 2129164 refers to "Irish Farm" and not "Irish Farm Cemetery". That is perhaps where I went astray. The sheet does not say they were from the original cemetery.

 

I went through all the COG-BR documents that I found and only one was close at 28.C.27.d.2.4 (COG-BR 2019005).

 

Something is missing if the Royal Fusiliers are to have come from the original Irish Farm Cemetery, as their coordinates show them at the site of the new cemetery.

 

Any ideas most welcome!

 

 

Edited by laughton
fixed link

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MelPack
8 hours ago, laughton said:

It appears the seven (7) with Walker are in Plot IV.BB buried 18 April 2018. I am not sure where (which graves) the other nineteen (19) were buried 28 September 2017. Mel probably knows. I found most of the stories with a Goggle Search for "JCCC New Irish Farm Cemetery". The details on the nineteen (19) are in a topic here on the GWF: https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/238324-remains-of-19-soldiers-found/.

 

 

Hello Richard

The 19 that were buried on 28 September 2017 are not the same as the 19 referred to in the topic link that you have provided - in fact, these 19 were recovered during the gaspipe excavation from which Captain Walker plus the 6 were drawn.

 

8 hours ago, laughton said:

It does not appear to change until 18 July 2016 when the three (3) graves appear in Plot IV Row AA - who were they?. It would appear that is the last time the CWGC Cemetery Plan was updated, as it shows only the 3 graves in AA.

 

 These three graves were four 'KUGs' buried on 5 April 2016, three of which had identifiable regimental affilaitions. The KOSB soldier was interred with the UBS because both were partial remains - hence only three graves for four soldiers.

http://www.wo1.be/en/news/55486/four-unknown-world-war-one-soldiers-to-be-buried-at-new-irish-farm-cemetery

https://www.itv.com/news/border/update/2016-04-05/unknown-borderers-solider-to-be-buried-in-ww1-cemetery/

 

I cannot be 100% certain but there should be 29 new graves - 3 for the 4 buried on 5 April 2016, 19 for the 19 KUGs recovered from the original Irish Farm Cemetery buried on  28 September 2017 and 7 for Walker plus 6 buried on 18 April 2018.

 

All very confusing!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MelPack

Hello Richard

 

I have had a look at some photographs of the 28 September 2017 burials and there are eleven headstones for the 19 soldiers - so several partial remains are buried in single graves. That means your calculation of 14 new graves for Plot IV Row AA and 7 new graves for Plot IV Row BB are correct.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
laughton

Thank you! No kidding - confusing! Just coincidence that both groups were of 19 men? Can we put them in the correct places - most of the images don't show the front of the stones.

  • Plot IV Row AA 1, 2, 3 = 3 graves for 4 remains 5 April 2016 (initial 3 buried from the gaspipe excavation near Langemark Poelkapelle in 2014 - none were identifiable by name)
    We have to place 1 King's Own Scottish Borderer, 1 Rifle Brigade, 1 Royal West Kent, 1 no details known = 4 (reference)
    Which grave has the two sets of remains?
    • AA1 - 
    • AA2 - 
    • AA3 - 
  • Plot IV Row AA 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 = 11 graves for 19 remains 28 September 2017 (from the site of the ORIGINAL IRISH FARM CEMETERY)
    We have to place 4 Essex, 1 Monmouthshire, 1 Argyll and Sutherland Highlander, 1 Northumberland, 1 Royal Irish Regiment, 11 no details known = 19 (reference)
    Which grave (or graves) have the multiple sets of remains?
    • AA4
    • AA5
    • AA6
    • AA7
    • AA8
    • AA9
    • AA10
    • AA11
    • AA12
    • AA13
    • AA14
  • Plot IV Row BB 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 =  graves from 18 April 2018 (all from the gaspipe excavation - held over from the earlier burials in Row AA for possible identification? ) 
    One of photos shows Walker at the end with the other one from the regiment beside him and the other five (5) had no identification (reference).

 

The "KUGs" puzzled me. Then the bright light ' "Known Unto God"? Never heard that one (KUGs) before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
laughton

Here is Ted's video of the New Irish Farm Cemetery. The new graves appear to be the opening shots but I can not see the names. I will see if he as still photos of any of the graves.

 

Uploaded by: Edward Walshe,Nov 20, 2017

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
laughton

There is something wrong with the part on the CWGC web site for the concentrations from the original Irish Farm Cemetery to the New Irish Farm Cemetery.

  1. On these three (3) COG-BR documents we have the following men:
    • Total men on sheets 63, 64, 65 = 57
    • Total of UnKnown Men on same sheets = 5
      • Net is therefore 5 Known Men by name and regiment = 52
    • Total of Unknown Men but Known Regiment = 2
      • Total of All Known to be British Soldiers = 54

That number of 54 agrees with the statement by the CWGC, so it would not appear that there is any question about them saying these are the men from the original Irish Farm Cemetery from May to September 1915. I checked a few of the dates of the casualties on each page and that agrees with the May to September timeline. On COG-BR 2129165 there are two (2) men in 37.C.12 and 37.C.13 that were buried in January 1918 in what here is said to be the original Irish Farm Cemetery (Oxlade and Daniesl both KIA 9 January 1918). Armstrong and Street (see CWGC List) were concentrated from the Paratonnerre Farm French Cemetery, so the we know it was Oxlade and Daniels in the CWGC reference to the January burials. There are other errors, such as Gray in 27.C.8 is #15317 of the Royal Scots, not that other number of the Labor Coy (reported toa have been checked 16 June 1920). That was corrected for the headstone.

 

The problem with this is that the site coordinates are incorrect. That could be for one of these reasons:

  1. Whoever made up the COG-BR sheets listed the map reference where the body was found as the site of the original Irish Farm Cemetery (or Irish Farm) but inadvertently use the trench map coordinates of the New Irish Farm Cemetery on the sheet at 28.C.21.c.2.2. You can see each sheet says the NEW cemetery is at 28.C.21.c.2.2 so the recovery area appears to be on the south edge of the NEW cemetery, not anywhere near the original cemetery or the farm.
  2. The other option is that the trench map coordinates are correct, and much like the cemeteries around Lens, they were moved stlightly during the consolidation period after the armistice.
  3. There is always a chance that they never did concentrate any of these people from the site of the original Irish Farm Cemetery and only those men found circa 2017 are from that cemetery - so were there more that were not recovered, or were they lost in shell fire during the war?

There are no other COG-BR sheets that have another set of men that is even close to this count, sited at what was believed to be the site of the original Irish Farm Cemetery.

 

This is the 1915 map:

590474809_1915Map.jpg.a14ae4f4a0fa29466989409f7f7939d3.jpg

 

On 12/09/2019 at 08:36, laughton said:

IRISH FARM CEMETERY, ST. JEAN - 28.C.27.a.2.5, immediately South of the Farm. It was begun by the 1st Royal Fusiliers in May, 1915, and used until September, 1915, and, at intervals, until January, 1918. It contained the graves of 54 soldiers from the United Kingdom.
These are reported as the concentration documents for 28.C.21.c.1.1 but that is not immediately south of the farm that is north of the farm more in line with the NEW cemetery?
The DAL (David Avery List) has New Irish Farm, St. Jean at
28.C.21.c.2.2 and Irish Farm, St. Jean at 28.C.27.a.2.5
That would mean that the COG-BR below were for men that were moved from the border of the new cemetery?

doc2129163.JPG

doc2129163.JPG

doc2129164.JPG

doc2129164.JPG

doc2129165.JPG

doc2129165.JPG

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...