George Stanley Lockwood

[blackburnian]

I wonder if any member can assist with any information regarding my Great Uncle, George Stanley Lockwood. During my research into my Family Tree I have discovered that at the time of his marriage in December 1918 he was a serving soldier. His address is given as an annexe of a Hotel in Dover.  George was born in Marylebone on 25 August 1894 and his early life was spent as a Barnardo’s Boy including a spell in Canada.

 

I have no information on which Regiment or whether he fought in any theatre during WW1.

 

If someone could point me in the right direction or advise me further it would be greatly appreciated.

 

Kind regards

Blackburnian

[BillyH]

Only had a quick look, but was he living in London in 1911, or at the start of the war? (there was a soldier of that name from Yorkshire in the Notts + Derby Reg't, but probably not your man?).

 

BillyH.

[blackburnian]

Thank you BillyH - no, this wouldn’t be him. I’m wondering whether with him going over to Canada as a Barnardo’s Boy, he joined the Canadian Army?

 

Many thanks for your reply

Blackburnian.

[BillyH]

Nothing is showing up in the Canadian Archives here :

http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/personnel-records/Pages/personnel-records.aspx

 

BillyH.

[blackburnian]

Thank you BillyH - I’ve just been corresponding with a cousin who emigrated to Canada and she thinks he might have been in the City of London Rifles, if that helps.

 

Thank you once again

Blackburnian.

 

[Coldashian]

Dear Blackburnian

I came across this thread recently while researching George Lockwood. He was my husband's step grandfather, as his second wife Esther was my husband's grandmother. We believe that George's first wife, Emily and his second wife Esther were best friends. He was held in great esteem in the family and we remember him with great fondness. We seem to have received the same information about him from Barnadoes but would love to know more about his time in Canada and in the first world war. Did you make any progress there? My husband seems to think that he joined the Canadian Army first before returning to the UK. Do you know anything about this.

Many thanks,

Coldashian

[Mark1959]

Welcome

I think there is some confusion here. It maybe that blackburnian and you are talking about 2 different men. I presume you are talking about the man who married Esther Atkinson in 1952 and Emily Cumptsey in 1919. He seems to the man born 25/8/1894 birth registered in Chesterfield. Cannot find anyone born in Marylebone with the name in 1894. Please confirm.

I suspect your man is the one that BillyH identified a few years ago. In which case  there are a few if limited records. He was wounded in his left leg. Is this a known injury of your man?

Edited 20 March , 2022 by Mark1959

[Coldashian]

Hi Old Sweats

I believe that Blackburnian and I are talking about the same person, who we personally knew and who was married to Emily, Esther and then Sallie. He was born in the workhouse in Marylebone on 25th Aug 1895, and his birth and baptism are listed there, but we know from Barnadoes contact that his birth was never officially registered. We also have letters showing that he wrote to Barnadoes aged 23 years to find out what year he was actually born!

[Matlock1418]

On 12/09/2019 at 09:13, blackburnian said:

I have discovered that at the time of his marriage in December 1918 he was a serving soldier. His address is given as an annexe of a Hotel in Dover.

Would perhaps be useful to see this Marriage Certificate, if it is available.

On 12/09/2019 at 09:38, BillyH said:

there was a soldier of that name from Yorkshire in the Notts + Derby Reg't

This appears likely to be this man.

Images courtesy of WFA/Fold3

On 12/09/2019 at 10:12, blackburnian said:

Thank you BillyH - no, this wouldn’t be him

Wondering why you are so definitive on striking him/86015 out.

36 minutes ago, Coldashian said:

I believe that Blackburnian and I are talking about the same person, who we personally knew and who was married to Emily, Esther and then Sallie. He was born in the workhouse in Marylebone on 25th Aug 1895, and his birth and baptism are listed there, but we know from Barnadoes contact that his birth was never officially registered. We also have letters showing that he wrote to Barnadoes aged 23 years to find out what year he was actually born!

This is handy [the year of birth is one year different from the OP], but ...

= I think you both are going to need to provide a much greater disclosure/detail on what you do know about 'your' George Stanley LOCKWOOD and more details of your source(s).

Hoping to help ...

M

[Coldashian]

Hi Matlock1418

II have to admit that it seems a little strange that there was another George Stanley Lockwood born one year earlier on the same date. 'Stanley' might be a red herring as he is shown as George on the workhouse records and on his admission to Barnadoes in 1907 following the death of his mother. We know that he was one of the hundreds of children sent by Barnadoes to work on the farms in Canada but really know nothing of his time there. We believe he returned to the UK in 1916 and enlisted in   B Co. City of London Rifles, Sudbury, Suffolk,    Service No: 49311 but have no real information about this time either.  George was very reluctant to talk about any of it. What else would be useful to know? Thanks

 

 

 

[Mark1959]

Finally found a record that is relevant

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/111597:1558?tid=&pid=&queryId=61c6f24dc69a1a082552524a4ccd5d37&_phsrc=vjt1&_phstart=successSource

This shows a baptism and birth that I assume is being referred to. It only mentions the name George. So 25/8/95

There is record of a Barbados Home child called George Lockwood aged 12 going to Quebec from Liverpool on the Kensington leaving 11/7/07 and arriving 20/7. Final destination was Toronto. 
There is a George Lockwood living with Andrew and Christina Stewart in Grey South, Ontario in 1911 Canadian census. This boy was born in England in Aug 1895.

[Matlock1418]

13 hours ago, Coldashian said:

What else would be useful to know?

For starters ...

13 hours ago, Coldashian said:

'Stanley' might be a red herring

Wondering where this came from ???

13 hours ago, Coldashian said:

We believe he returned to the UK in 1916 and enlisted in   B Co. City of London Rifles, Sudbury, Suffolk,    Service No: 49311

And especially where this came from ???  = Seems very specific - so why the relatively high level of confidence ???

For the Canadian side of thing don't know if you have looked at these, as a few for starters: https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/immigration/immigration-records/home-children-1869-1930/Pages/home-children.aspx#a  ,  https://www.facebook.com/groups/Britishhomechildren  ,  https://www.britishhomechildren.com  ,  https://canadianbritishhomechildren.weebly.com

Good luck

M

Edited 21 March , 2022 by Matlock1418
link

[Coldashian]

Hi Mark1959

You have found our George Lockwood!  Very happy to see you have traced him in the Canadian 1911 census. Is there any chance of seeing a screenshot of that entry as I don't have access? If not then can you let me know with what status he is shown with the family? - Was he on a farm as a worker? Was he the only British child shown with them?

Many thanks

[Coldashian]

HI Matlock1418

Thanks for your response.

I said that Stanley might be a red herring as the first use of the middle name Stanley is on his marriage certificate. We certainly knew him as George Stanley but Stanley wasn't used in his childhood records so we don't really know where that comes from.

With regards to his return in 1916 and enlistment in the B company, City of London Rifles, I found this information written down by his stepdaughter (my mother in law) and so presume that she got the information directly from him. Unfortunately she is no longer alive to check her sources. Is is possible from these details to find out anything of his service record and whether he might have previously enrolled in the Canadian army.

I will take a look at the links you kindly sent.

Many thanks

[kenf48]

18 hours ago, Coldashian said:

Dear Blackburnian

I came across this thread recently while researching George Lockwood.

@blackburnian has not visited the GWF since 2020 

You could try sending him/her a personal message just click on the name and open the profile page if they still have the same email it should get through

[Broznitsky]

There are 80 men with the surname Lockwood who joined the Canadian forces.

None with the first name Stanley or George with a birth year of 1894 or 1895.

So either your Lockwood did not serve in the CEF, or he modified biographic details when he joined up.

You could trawl through the 80 Lockwoods to see if anything jumps out.  Of course, he might also have fiddled his surname . . .

[Matlock1418]

10 minutes ago, Broznitsky said:

There are 80 men with the surname Lockwood who joined the Canadian forces.

None with the first name Stanley or George with a birth year of 1894 or 1895.

There is this one, Stanley LOCKWOOD https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?op=pdf&app=CEF&id=B5708-S019 with a suspiciously close 28/8/95 DoB but the biog details don't seem to be matched at present.

Seems to have been discharged Sept 1918 - Could he possibly have made it back to the UK, get enlisted and get married in December 1918 ??

I wonder if the signature is anything like what is on that Marriage Certificate ??

???

M

Edited 21 March , 2022 by Matlock1418

[Coldashian]

Hi Kenf$8

Many thanks for your suggestion. I am very new to this forum and still very much trying to find my way around, but have now messaged Blackburnian directly and have fingers crossed for a response!

[Coldashian]

Hi  Brosnitsky and Matlock1418

Many many thanks for your searches on my behalf.

The Stanley Lockwood you have dug up has certain similarities but... Barnadoes records show his eyes to be grey? - a minor point. My husband thinks he could have been around 5ft 6 in tall! He would have had to make up a whole different family history for this to be correct.... Lockwood was his mother's surname as father refused paternity. Also we think he was back in the UK in 1916??

Unfortunately, I only have copies of the marriage certificates which, as copies, do not show his actual signature.

I really appreciate all the help.

Coldashian

[helpjpl]

2 hours ago, Matlock1418 said:

There is this one, Stanley LOCKWOOD https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?op=pdf&app=CEF&id=B5708-S019 with a suspiciously close 28/8/95 DoB but the biog details don't seem to be matched at present.

Seems to have been discharged Sept 1918 - Could he possibly have made it back to the UK, get enlisted and get married in December 1918 ??

No, not him! The above Stanley Lockwood married Violet Ruth Rogers on 16 May 1924 in Canada.

Ontario Canada Marriages (from ancestry):

JP

Edited 21 March , 2022 by helpjpl
to add Ontario Canada Marriages

[helpjpl]

32 minutes ago, Coldashian said:

Unfortunately, I only have copies of the marriage certificates which, as copies, do not show his actual signature.

 

1.  What is George Stanley Lockwood's 'Occupation' on the 1918 marriage certificate ? (Civil Registration Marriage Index from ancestry)

 

2.  Are these the other 2 marriages ? (Civil Registration Marriage Indexes from ancestry):

 

3.  Did he die 14 September 1985 ? (Civil Registration Death Index, ancestry):

JP

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, Coldashian said:

Lockwood was his mother's surname as father refused paternity.

That does make a bit of a difference and is handy to know.

40 minutes ago, helpjpl said:

No, not him! The above Stanley Lockwood married Violet Ruth Rogers on 16 May 1924 in Canada.

Fair enough - that seems to rule him out for @blackburnianand  @Coldashian

M

[kenf48]

6 hours ago, Coldashian said:

I said that Stanley might be a red herring as the first use of the middle name Stanley is on his marriage certificate. We certainly knew him as George Stanley but Stanley wasn't used in his childhood records so we don't really know where that comes from.

With regards to his return in 1916 and enlistment in the B company, City of London Rifles,

 

On 12/09/2019 at 21:34, blackburnian said:

I’ve just been corresponding with a cousin who emigrated to Canada and she thinks he might have been in the City of London Rifles, if that helps.

 

There is a George Lockwood who originally enlisted in the 11th Leicestershire Regiment (Pioneers) and entered a theatre of war (France) on the 17th December 1916 and it appears was compulsorily transferred to the 34th London Regiment when it was raised at Clacton in 1918.

Image from Ancestry

There is a fragment on FMP that shows he was hospitalised at 11 Casualty Clearing Station whilst serving with the 7th Leicestershire Regiment on the 7 October 1917 suffering from DAH (Disorderly Action of the Heart) he appears in another fragment to have been returned to the UK.

 

[Matlock1418]

25 minutes ago, kenf48 said:

There is a George Lockwood who originally enlisted in the 11th Leicestershire Regiment (Pioneers) on the 17th December 1916

Isn't 17 Dec 1916 his first date in a ToW? [1(a) - France] - as an Acting Corporal so presumably had some service time under his belt. ???

Could he have possibly achieved this ??? Possibly due to maturity ???

A Pension Index Card at WFA/Fold3 has him as: London Regt 881416, Sherwood Foresters 36232, Leicestershire Regt 49731 and probably also 8060 - such things can get muddled up at MoP but to me probably suggests rather longer service than just from 1916

Addit: Discharged 19.3.19 - A further Pension Ledger Index Card has his DoB as 1887 and Married and residence at 37 Mill St. , Ilkeston, Derbyshire

M

Edited 21 March , 2022 by Matlock1418
addition

[kenf48]

1 hour ago, Matlock1418 said:

Addit: Discharged 19.3.19 - A further Pension Ledger Index Card has his DoB as 1887 and Married and residence at 37 Mill St. , Ilkeston, Derbyshire

Not him then, thought the answer might be in the pension cards. Just thought he was worth a mention.