AM87 Posted 10 September , 2019 Share Posted 10 September , 2019 Hi all, trying to track down details of another great great uncle during WW1. I have found his MIC which states he was in the Royal Engineers and served with three different numbers (952,448528, 617609). Apart from this i cannot find any further details (units etc). Could anyone give me some clues as to where else to look? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 10 September , 2019 Share Posted 10 September , 2019 (edited) AM87 He appears to have served originally with 2/1st Welsh Field Company with the number 952. This was a Territorial Force unit. In 1917 the unit designation was changed to 437 (Welsh) Field Company and he received a new number 448528. They have a war diary at TNA in WO 95/4621, unfortunately it is not available on-line. They served with 53 Welsh Division in Egypt. The number 617609 was issued, I think, in early 1919 and it looks like he may have volunteered for an extra 12 months service. He would have been formally discharged from the TF and re-enlisted in the regular army. I can't help with the unit in the latter case I'm afraid. TR Edited 10 September , 2019 by Terry_Reeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM87 Posted 10 September , 2019 Author Share Posted 10 September , 2019 wow thats fascinating thanks. Do you know when he would of joined up? How have you found his out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 10 September , 2019 Share Posted 10 September , 2019 (edited) AM87 Possibly late 1914 or early 1915. His second number, issued in 1917, is linked to the unit. Interestingly, he was only entitled to the British War and Victory Medals yet the unit landed in Gallipoli in December 1915, which should have entitled him to the 1914-15 star. I have no explanation for this I'm afraid. You can find the TF numbers on the Long Long Trail of which there is a link on this forum at the top of the page. TR Edited 10 September , 2019 by Terry_Reeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadbrewer Posted 11 September , 2019 Share Posted 11 September , 2019 Slightly off topic...I dont know if you know, but it looks as though the Allmarks may have been of Swedish extraction. I did a quick search and it turned up a Swedish Ancestry tree with him in...suggesting the original family name was Ahlmark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 11 September , 2019 Share Posted 11 September , 2019 Terry, is it possible that the 14-15 star is on a separate MIC ? I'm fairly sure I've come across this happening before but can't recall the reason. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 11 September , 2019 Share Posted 11 September , 2019 19 minutes ago, mancpal said: Terry, is it possible that the 14-15 star is on a separate MIC ? I'm fairly sure I've come across this happening before but can't recall the reason. Simon Simon Thanks, yes I have looked into that but to no avail. There is another possibility, that he was sent out in 1916 as a reinforcement, however proving it is another matter. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 11 September , 2019 Share Posted 11 September , 2019 (edited) There is only one MIC at the National Archives and no entry on a RE 1914/1915 Star roll. Could it simply be that he didn't serve overseas until after Gallipoli - what was his year of birth?? Max Crossed in the post Terry - sorry. Age though may be significant? Edited 11 September , 2019 by MaxD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 11 September , 2019 Share Posted 11 September , 2019 (edited) Max Yes, I agree. TR Edited 11 September , 2019 by Terry_Reeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 11 September , 2019 Share Posted 11 September , 2019 (edited) 25 minutes ago, MaxD said: Could it simply be that he didn't serve overseas until after Gallipoli - what was his year of birth?? No likely birth records in England and Wales but the GRO index of Army Births and Baptisms does record two separate entries for a Bernard C Allmark at Glasgow in 1898. His father served in the Royal Artillery. There are also two entries for a Henry Allmark in 1900 at the same location and with a father serving in the Royal Artillery. The 1901 Census of Scotland records a 2 year old Bernard Allmark, born Glasgow, living in the Maryhill registration district of Glasgow, Lanarkshire. (I only have access to a very basic transcription – Scotlands People will give more details). There is a 13 year old Bernard “Chrisfer” Allmark, born Glasgow, who was probably a visitor on the night of the census of England & Wales at 25 Back Street, Swansea. He was born Glasgow. His relationship to the head of the family is shown as son, but I suspect that’s to another visitor, the 45 year old married man William Henry Allmark, a Rigger in a Dry Dock, born Salford, Lancashire, rather than the married couple whose household this is. Another vistor recorded is an 11 year old Henry Allmark, born Glasgow. So that would have made him not old enough to serve overseas until circa 1916/1917. Hope that helps, Peter Edited 11 September , 2019 by PRC Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 11 September , 2019 Share Posted 11 September , 2019 Good spots Peter - could be the answer. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 11 September , 2019 Share Posted 11 September , 2019 Hi AM87, His 617609 number would appear to date from circa August 1919. Some records exist which show: 617664 Rolls - joined 11.8.1919 617670 James - joined 11.8.1919 617674 Eager - joined 11.8.1919 617680 Lucas - joined 11.8.1919 617682 Smith - joined 11.8.1919 617683 Phillips - joined 11.8.1919 617687 Ramsay - joined 12.8.1919 617696 O'Dell - joined 11.8.1919 However, there are a couple of lower 6175** numbers which show: 617520 Freeman - joined 19.8.1919 617574 Regan - joined 27.8.1919 Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 11 September , 2019 Share Posted 11 September , 2019 Unlucky that his record has not survived. Looking at some of the men listed by Chris, : 617696 served Aug 19 to Aug 20 at Chatham. 617670 served Aug 19 to May 20 part overseas 617664 served Aug 19 to Aug 21 part overseas (Egypt) 617674 served Aug 19 to Nov 20 in France 617680 also served a similar overseas (Turkey) for part of it. Each have their RE number on their medal records, one who didn't go overseas and others who did, not all in the same place. Suggests we can't be sure, without other clues, that Allmark served overseas in the 1919/20 period and if he did, where. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM87 Posted 11 September , 2019 Author Share Posted 11 September , 2019 Fascinating - I have tracked down Christopher Allmarks DOB as being 25/12/1899. I am interested in the Royal Artillery link to his father, as William Henry Allamark seems to have moved round from port town to port town (he has children born in Glasgow, Liverpool, Swansea and Portsmouth) so i assumed he was in the RN. Christopher Allmarks MIC is clear though, and clearly says he has a 900 number. the 1911 census has him as living in Swansea, so i assume this is the link with him joining the 2/1st Welsh Field Company? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolt968 Posted 11 September , 2019 Share Posted 11 September , 2019 In the 1901 Census William Henry Allmark was "Coy Serg Major Royal Artillery", residence given as "Government Barracks and Hospital" (as I suspected from the Maryhill location). Five sons are listed, the last two born in Glasgow; the eldest, James William Allmark born in England; the middle two born in Ireland. (Census 1901, Scotland (transcription) ancestry). William Henry Allmark's soldier's record can be found at FMP. I am still working my way through it. He seems to have enlisted initially for the Royal Welch Fusiliers in 1886, but was in the RA by 1889. He was discharged in 1907. I think his wife was Annie Egan whom he married in Ireland (at least she was Irish). More to come when I get a minute to read on. RM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 11 September , 2019 Share Posted 11 September , 2019 What a great job he had prior to service! George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 11 September , 2019 Share Posted 11 September , 2019 (edited) 42 minutes ago, AM87 said: Fascinating - I have tracked down Christopher Allmarks DOB as being 25/12/1899. In that case he would not appear to be the man I've identified from the Census and Army Birth records as a potential candidate. Can you advise where this date came from? 42 minutes ago, AM87 said: I am interested in the Royal Artillery link to his father, as William Henry Allamark seems to have moved round from port town to port town (he has children born in Glasgow, Liverpool, Swansea and Portsmouth) so i assumed he was in the RN. But if he is then - and apologies that I only have the most basic transcription of the Scottish Census. On the 1901 edition there is a 35 year old Company Sergt Major William Henry Allmark, Royal Artillery, born England, living at Maryhill, Glasgow. Unfortunately as with Bernard I can’t check who else was in the household. A check of Allmark’s living in the Maryhill Civil Registration District brings up 7 matches. As well as William Henry, (35), Bernard, (2) and Henry, (aged under 1), the other four are: Annie, aged 27, a Soldiers’ wife, born Ireland James William, aged 8, born England John Alfred, aged 6, born Ireland James Albert, aged 5, born Ireland. I could not find Annie Allmark on the 1911 Census of England and Wales, but I could find her on the 1891 Census of England and Wales – an 18 year old married woman born Ireland who was living at Norton Green, Isle of Wight with her husband, the 24 year old William H. Allmark, a Gunner in the Royal Artillery, born Manchester. The couple have just one child living with them – the 1 month old Josephine Allmark, born Norton Green. However there are potential matches for two of those children on the 1911 Census of England and Wales – an “Alfred” Allmark, aged 17, born Queenstown, Ireland is shown as the head of the household at Elliott Yard, Meyrick Street, Pembroke Docks, Pembrokeshire. Living with him is his 15 year old brother James Allmark, born Queenstown, Ireland. Alfred works assisting a Newsagent while James is assisting a bricklayer. 42 minutes ago, AM87 said: the 1911 census has him as living in Swansea, so i assume this is the link with him joining the 2/1st Welsh Field Company? If I have understood the census return correctly, they were merely visiting, so could be living anywhere. More work needs to be done to confiirm where they were living - although it is extremely likely there is a Welsh connection, Cheers, Peter Edited 11 September , 2019 by PRC Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolt968 Posted 11 September , 2019 Share Posted 11 September , 2019 I still haven't had time to work my way through William Henry Allmark's soldier's record. However one or two other oddments have turned up. William Henry Allmark married Annie Egan(?) Egan in Cork in Oct-Dec 1889 (Irish Civil Marriage Index - ancestry). John Alfred Allmark and James Albert Allmark were registered in London schools in August/ September 1901.(London Schools Admissions and Discharges - ancestry) RM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolt968 Posted 11 September , 2019 Share Posted 11 September , 2019 Still reading, but to answer a couple of questions. In the attestation form William Henry Allmark said that he was born in Hulme, Manchester. He attested in Liverpool. RM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 11 September , 2019 Share Posted 11 September , 2019 (edited) A number of men in Bernard’s company attested in Llanelly. TR Edited 11 September , 2019 by Terry_Reeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolt968 Posted 11 September , 2019 Share Posted 11 September , 2019 James Albert Allmark, 10740, 2 & 1 Border Regiment enlisted 6 March 1914, discharged 3 December 1917. (SWB Registers and Medal Rolls - ancestry). RM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 11 September , 2019 Share Posted 11 September , 2019 15 minutes ago, rolt968 said: James Albert Allmark, 10740, 2 & 1 Border Regiment enlisted 6 March 1914, discharged 3 December 1917. (SWB Registers and Medal Rolls - ancestry). RM Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolt968 Posted 11 September , 2019 Share Posted 11 September , 2019 The relevant parts of William Henry's soldier's record are probably the last postings: 15 Feb 1900 promoted CSM 1 July 1900 to 3 Scot SD (or 5D) 6 August 1901 to Eastern Division 2 Middlesex VA After that he reverted to sergeant at his own request, serving with RGA 25 Coy - 11 December 1902 55 Coy - 6 March 1903 25 Coy - 9 March 1907 28 Coy - 1 May 1907 Discharged - 30 August 1907 In the 1939 Register, James Albert Allmark was a "colliery hewer" in Llannelly. He died in Llannelly in 1939. RM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolt968 Posted 11 September , 2019 Share Posted 11 September , 2019 Got it! From William Henry Allmark's record again. Discharged at Weymouth (Portland). Place of intended residence: Ivy Bush Inn, Market St. Pembroke Dock. (If he became the licensee, there might be something in the local papers?) RM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 11 September , 2019 Share Posted 11 September , 2019 How about this from FMP newspapers https://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0001549%2f19161222%2f107&stringtohighlight=w. h%2c allmark George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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