Mimi Posted 10 September , 2019 Share Posted 10 September , 2019 My Great Grandfather was supposedly killed in a TURK Dump somewhere near Albert in the Battle of the Somme. Does anyone know what a Turk Dump is? thank you Christine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 10 September , 2019 Admin Share Posted 10 September , 2019 Welcome to the forum. I have found trenches named Turk Avenue and a Turk Lane near Gueudecourt and a Turk Street at Beaumont/Ovillers. Dump suggests a places where stores or ammunition were left. Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 10 September , 2019 Share Posted 10 September , 2019 I don’t know the exact whereabouts at present but the 4th NF were using Turks Dump whilst improving Turk Avenue and Yarra Avenue J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 11 September , 2019 Share Posted 11 September , 2019 Hi Christine, and a warm welcome to the forum. Would it be possible to post your great grandfather's name and date of death? There is often a lot of information to be found in the burial records and if the experts on here can get a sniff of a clue you'd be amazed at what they can turn up. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimi Posted 27 September , 2019 Author Share Posted 27 September , 2019 Hello all, my Great Grandfather's name was Robert Milne he was born in Scotland. He lived in Queen's Park, Perth. Western Australia. His service # 5434, 11th Battalion AIF. He died on February 25th 1917 in France, somewhere near Albert. I hope someone might be able to find out a little more than i have been able to find. Thankyou Mimi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 27 September , 2019 Share Posted 27 September , 2019 Mimi, where did you get the reference to Turk Dump? Roberts service papers and the battalion war diary are available to view and download online (there is no cost) Having had a quick look through his papers it may appear that his original burial location (small military cemetery at crossroads 1/2 mile NW of Flers). His remains were removed to Grass Lane Cemetery and in turn this became the AIF Burial Ground, Grass Lane, Flers. I also note from the CWGC CoGR (concentration report) that this is a collective grave. I’m at work at present and using an iPhone to view images but will happily look further later. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteStarLine Posted 27 September , 2019 Share Posted 27 September , 2019 Hi Christine, Here is the approximate location where his body was retrieved from (somewhere within the marked square NW of Flers. The dump was perhaps a little north of this as most of the front line trenches (Gird, Bayonet etc) they were carrying supplies to were further N and NW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Posted 27 September , 2019 Share Posted 27 September , 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, Mimi said: Hello all, my Great Grandfather's name was Robert Milne he was born in Scotland. He lived in Queen's Park, Perth. Western Australia. His service # 5434, 11th Battalion AIF. He died on February 25th 1917 in France, somewhere near Albert. I hope someone might be able to find out a little more than i have been able to find. Thankyou Mimi Have you tried some of the excellent Australian sources? Have a look at this:- https://vwma.org.au/explore/people/84137. It has his photo and one of his gravestone. On this website, it has the War Diary for 11th AIF. On the entry for 25th February 1917, Robert is mentioned along with what he is his mates were doing. The place referred to is Cough Drop, sheet 57cSW1, Square M 35a. I hope that helps. Howard Around here:- Edited 27 September , 2019 by Howard Added map Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 27 September , 2019 Share Posted 27 September , 2019 (edited) Mimi, just to add to J,WSL and Howard's posts this is the area described as it is today. The first photo is taken from the D6 towards the bottom of Howard's satellite image looking towards Flers. I think the point Howard has identified would be just to the right of the small copse in the little valley beyond, and the area identified by WSL beyond that but to the left. Pete. Edited 27 September , 2019 by Fattyowls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 28 September , 2019 Share Posted 28 September , 2019 (edited) Having now read the relevant from the WD thanks to Howard's link I note there are several mentions of Turks Dump along with several other dumps in the locality, I still cannot pinpoint the precise location for Turks Dump but there is perhaps a few clues in these two maps taken from the 4th NF WD. The first map shows a trench tramway running north from Flers along Turk Avenue and terminating in M.30.a.7.2. The crossroads burial reference from Robert's service papers would appear to suggest the crossroads at M.30.c.9.6. As can be seen where the tramway terminates in the second map we have a Centre Battalion Railway/Relay Dump only a few yards from where Turk Reserve meets Turk Avenue and a very probable location for Turk Dump J Edited 28 September , 2019 by jay dubaya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Regiano Posted 28 September , 2019 Share Posted 28 September , 2019 A.I.F cemetery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Posted 28 September , 2019 Share Posted 28 September , 2019 (edited) I have looked on 20+ maps of various scales but not found Turk Dump. Some maps have camps and other infrastruture, often not named so one cannot be sure. Jay's conjecture looks pretty sound. This map is dated June 1918 so a long way out but it shows two dumps in square 35. The Legend says "Enemy Organisation". Would they have used the same dump sites? Howard Edited 28 September , 2019 by Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Posted 28 September , 2019 Share Posted 28 September , 2019 Could the "Store" in square 35 b be Turk Dump? Sadly this map is not dated but note on reverse says "Nov 1916". It fits the description of carrying stores from the Cough Drop to the front line. Trenches with the name Turk are just to the North of this map. Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Posted 28 September , 2019 Share Posted 28 September , 2019 To answer my own question, probably not. I just found this by simply putting Turk Dump into Google. So now I cannot find Decauville Tramway! but Hexham Road is in squares 23 and 30. If anyone can find Decauville Tramway then the problem is cracked. Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 28 September , 2019 Share Posted 28 September , 2019 Hexham Road and Turk Lane meet at The crossroads in 24.c a little further n from where the tramway terminates in the maps I posted. Reading the passage from Howard’s extract I’m willing to say that my earlier suggestion of Turks Dump is indeed correct J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteStarLine Posted 28 September , 2019 Share Posted 28 September , 2019 Brilliant work J and Howard. Here is J's suggestion on Google Earth in the vicinity of the trees: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 30 September , 2019 Share Posted 30 September , 2019 Ah well....close but no fig roll.... I was indeed incorrect in my assumption, I've identified what appears to be Durham Dump as Turks Dump. The book extract highlighted by Howard are the memoirs of Philip Owen Ayton who served with the Australian 1st Field Coy Engineers, although Turk Dump has several mentions in the unit WD no location is given. Whilst googling for Ayton's book I also found another reference to Turks Dump, 'The Purple Patch - History of the 3rd Field Coy Engineers'. The WD for 3rd FCE notes on the 3rd February 1917 - 2 dumps were started for wiring materials for Intermediate Line known as Turks and Seven Elms Dumps. however the WD gives no exact location and Seven Elms can be seen in square 28.d. Having looked in the WD for the 2nd FCE there is no mention of either of these dumps but the last page of the appendix is the absolute gem! Can we say it's safe to assume that Turks Head Dump and Turks Dump are one the same at 57c.M.30.c.30.05, if so, we know who built the dump, when it was built and what its initial purpose was. These 3 engineer units along with the 11th Inf Btn all formed part of the 1st Australian Division which had seen action in Gallipoli and may well be where the name derived from. J map courtesy of Australian War Memorial note the track leading to the AIF Burial Ground google street view looking ENE towards Guedecourt, Turks Head Dump was just in front of the last bush in the centre of the image Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Posted 30 September , 2019 Share Posted 30 September , 2019 Well done Jay, that looks spot on!!! Right next the Bde. HQ in map 1 of post #10. I was going to ask about Tram Railhead Dump in the same map but no need now. They were long distances to carry heavy stuff. Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimi Posted 25 August , 2020 Author Share Posted 25 August , 2020 Hello. I am overwhelmed with all of the information and maps that have been put into a query i had about my Great Grandfather Pte Robert Milne. Your all amazing i could never have found half of it. Thank you again and for your time, keep up the great work! Very much appreciated Mimi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heid the Ba Posted 25 August , 2020 Share Posted 25 August , 2020 Mimi, Where in Scotland was he born? My family is full of Milnes and has the odd Robert or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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