Minesweeping Trawler Crew

[Biggles]

Good day all,

 

I would like to know the average complement of a minesweeping trawler requisitioned for the Royal Navy in WWI.  Number of RNR/RNVR officers and ranks, and crew disposition, etc? 

Thanks in advance,

Caleb

[michaeldr]

You may get some useful info from the Naval History Net here

https://www.naval-history.net/WW1NavyBritish-RNShipCrews.htm

in particular see the listings for the trawlers Bradford and Remindo

[horatio2]

There is really no 'average' complement. michaeldr has indicated some useful benchmarks, based on crews that were lost with their boat. It is worth pointing out that the majority of trawlers and drifters did not carry commissioned officers but had just the skipper (a warrant officer) in command. RNR/RNVR officers carried were usually the senior officers controlling a group of trawlers. Given that fact, the crew listed for the trawler BRADFORD is probably more typical - around a dozen.

[Hyacinth1326]

If I was you I would look at ADM/186/604 'History of British Minesweeping in the War'  which explores the genesis of the trawler section and the role of HMS Vernon. The Trawler section retained pre-war crews. The crew numbers varied.  Ruthin Castle sunk 21.4.17 had a crew of ten. Dirk sunk on 28.5.1918 had a crew of eleven including a sub-Lt and and RN telegraphist.  As the war progressed, so increased the probability of specialised personnel such as the telegraphist or a PO joining the crew.  I would suggest you beg borrow or steal a copy of Robb Robinson's major work on the subject 'Fishermen, the Fishing Industry and the Great War at Sea'  Published by Liverpool University, Research in Maritime History No 51, International Maritime History Association. Crew disposition is a fascinating aspect explored in this work.  The key sub-division between deck-hands and engine room staff echoing the division between seamen and engine room in the RN.

 

There was a marked lack of uniformity within the Auxiliary Patrol even in late 1918.  The Humber trawlers (Sector IX) operated in sections of six units under reservist officers but the Tyne (Sector VIII) operated with sections of four units. 

 

  Robinson examines all this with some useful case studies.

Edited 7 September , 2019 by Hyacinth1326

[Biggles]

Thank you gentlemen for your input.  

33 minutes ago, michaeldr said:

You may get some useful info from the Naval History Net here

https://www.naval-history.net/WW1NavyBritish-RNShipCrews.htm

in particular see the listings for the trawlers Bradford and Remindo

This was very enlightening and interesting, indeed, and I will take a look at ADM/186/604.

 

Cheerio,

Caleb

[horatio2]

1 hour ago, Hyacinth1326 said:

The Trawler section retained pre-war crews.

This was true for the dates when boats were first hired by the Admiralty and the boats came with their existing civilian crews. However, the pre-war crews (now RNR ratings) and the skippers were widely moved around the Auxiliary Patrol fleet thereafter. RN and RNVR ratings were also drafted to the Trawler Section, some of them transferred to RNR.

[Biggles]

Sorry to reestablish this thread, but in continuum, what was the daily pay for;  1. Temp.Skpr, RNR,  2. Temp.Chief-Skpr, RNR, and  3. Temp.Skpr-Lieut, RNR? I could not find details of these records.  I believe it was just a 'glorified' Petty Officer's pay, but I would like to know from the experts.  

 

Cheerio,

Caleb

 

P.S. (My apologies - not WWI) I am also currently researching an RNR Skipper from WWII, and if anyone is heading to TNA, I would greatly appreciate some photos of his Skipper card, as it is not digitised.  PM me to discuss.

Edited 14 September , 2019 by Biggles

[horatio2]

The Pay Scales are exceedingly complex, depending on time in rank, etc. With a broad brush - A Skipper would be paid 6/- per diem and a Chief Skipper 10/- per diem, with Command Money of 2/- per diem. Those are approx. warrant officer pay rates.  There is no such rank as "Temp.Skpr-Lieut, RNR": Lieutenant is a commissioned rank; Skipper is a warrant rank. You cannot be both at the same time. A Llieutenant was paid about 11/- per diem on promotion and could also qualify for Command Pay.

 

[Biggles]

18 minutes ago, horatio2 said:

There is no such rank as "Temp.Skpr-Lieut, RNR"

Skipper-Lieutenant RNR, is a rank, senior to Chief-Skipper.  Maybe it was not introduced until WWII?  

Thanks for the basic pay rates, anyhow.

 

Caleb

 

[horatio2]

1 hour ago, Biggles said:

Maybe it was not introduced until WWII?  

Indeed, so outside this WW1 forum's remit. MODs may close. In the Navy List for February 1939 there are only seven Skipper Lieutenants (no Lt Cdrs) and the two most senior were promoted on 25 March 1935.

[ss002d6252]

The thread can stay open as long it continues on WW1 related issues only.

Craig

[Biggles]

On 07/09/2019 at 17:56, michaeldr said:

You may get some useful info from the Naval History Net here

https://www.naval-history.net/WW1NavyBritish-RNShipCrews.htm

in particular see the listings for the trawlers Bradford and Remindo

In these lists Michael posted, the rank/rating 2nd Hand, RNR, appears numerous times.  I have heard of this before, in the instance of the smack HMS. Nelson, under Skipper Thomas Crisp, with his son as 2nd Hand.  What exactly is this rank/rating equivalent too and what does it mean or entail?  

 

Thanks,

Caleb

[horatio2]

The 2nd Hand is the seaman rating next in order of command after the Skipper and above the Deck Hands.