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JohnC

'Hand Made' Maps

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mebu

Not just maps showing great skill, here's a drawing of a simple dugout that I could not do on a computer never mind by hand.

041.JPG

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Howard
2 hours ago, Gunner Bailey said:

Is the relevance of these maps being on tracing paper that they could be overlaid on a real paper map or could they be duplicated from these originals?

I think it is both. I have a few "official" artillery maps marked as being intended as overlays on printed maps.

 

There is a third possibility, on both sides it seems there was a shortage of paper. I have quite a few maps, especially German where they have printed a huge X on one side to show it is outdated and then printed the new map on the back. As that would be a real pain on old presses for a one-off, I assume they did that in batches.

 

Howard

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Neill Gilhooley

Elsewhere 

 

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JohnC

Some were definitely traced from a printed map, then added to with local detail. I think it could also be used as part of the process for making local duplicates such as with an Ellams machine.

Regarding the French map, I've just noticed that the numerals I queried the purpose of also appear on a printed 20,000 of the same area. I think they are spot heights.

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Fattyowls
2 hours ago, mebu said:

Not just maps showing great skill, here's a drawing of a simple dugout that I could not do on a computer never mind by hand.

 

Peter, that is almost a work of art. It makes you wonder if it was done as an example of how to build a dugout.

 

11 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Some were definitely traced from a printed map, then added to with local detail. I think it could also be used as part of the process for making local duplicates such as with an Ellams machine.

Regarding the French map, I've just noticed that the numerals I queried the purpose of also appear on a printed 20,000 of the same area. I think they are spot heights.

 

That's a really interesting and important map. I'm wondering if the French tank memorial ( Mémorial des Chars d'Assaut) is just off to the right where the two main roads intersect. Thanks for posting it.

 

Pete.

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JohnC

Hello Peter.

Yes, I believe it is, if you meant the left side. The two roads are now the D925 and the D1044. The memorial is at the NE side of their intersection. You can find it on Google Earth etc.

In November 1915 a Capetaine Charles de Galle of 33rd Infantry Regiment was posted hereabouts. In a daily report he wrote

"The observation of enemy positions must be continuous for everyone and the main lines of these positions must be very well known.
In particular, no note should hesitate to show the route of Juvincourt, le Boyau IH, la Tranchee Vertical, la Courtine du Roi de Saxe, le Boyau de Camp de Cesar, le point D, le point K, la direction de la Petite Capnniere, la direction de d."

The maker of this map seems to have noted his instructions....

J

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Fattyowls
14 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Yes, I believe it is, if you meant the left side.

 

Good spot John, not knowing my left from my right always catches me out. It is one of the many reasons I avoid driving on the continent. I have visited the memorial several times as Martin Middlebrook used to stop there on the way to tour the Verdun battlefields. I haven't got my dog eared copy of 'Before Endeavours Fade' to hand but one of the CWGC cemeteries in the vicinity has the highest proportion of unknowns. Could be wrong about that just as I wouldn't be able to tell if it was on the left or the right side of the road.

 

Pete.

 

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Howard

Here is a hand drawn artillery training map of a site easily found in the UK. It has a handy piece of string attached to take bearings.

 

What may not be obvious is that the aiming point is not always what they shot at, the gun sight would point at "something" and then a switch added, an angle left or right. Most artillery was carried out without being able to see the target and therefore they could not train the sight on it. Often the sight was aimed at a picket, sometimes a distant feature as here.

 

Howard

Kennet Road Site.jpg

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Gunner Bailey

Post 26 and 33.

 

Outstanding map and plan. Super quality. Thanks for sharing.

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David Filsell

Mebu,

i suspect this is an office engineering drawing by a draftsman. It has side section and plan and I reckon at one time would have had a front and rear elevation to accompany it.

Regards

David

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JohnC

Hello Howard,

Yes, I have several recycled German maps, some of them with the big cross, and occasionally stamped 'Ungultig' (invalid). I also have a fragment of one made from pasted together aircraft recce message forms, photo below. Desparate times, those last months....

IMG_5169.JPG

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mebu

David, yes it does appear to be the hand of a draughtsman. The RE diary from which it comes (427 or 428 from memory) is when 42nd Div held the Hebuterene/Colincamps area in summer 1918. There are a number of similar quality detailed drawings accompanying it, including the existing concrete structures in Colincamps barn. From memory the "office" was the catacombs of Sailly-au-Bois church.

Many of the items in the above posts illustrate a technique which seems to be lacking today (as commented on by the OP), maybe almost forgotten, with CAD etc. I bet none of the "naturalists" on TV today could do a perfect representation of say a bird or an insect, which was once a basic requirement.

 

Peter  

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robbie56

The + sign within the circle refers to changing H2 locations April 15. The dot within the circle refers to H2 supports same period. The larger single black dots mark machine gun positions. A, B, C, D, E indicates company/trench position for same period.

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Howard

Here are 16 pages of maps & notes. They should be seen as a set, they refer to Regina Trench and Mouquet Farm in early December 1916.

 

They appear to be notes for the hand over between units. No doubt that standard trench maps were also part of the "trench stores" handed over but this survival is quite rare.

 

Howard

Edited by Howard

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JohnC
On 30/09/2019 at 10:34, Neill Gilhooley said:

Elsewhere 

 

Neill,

Looking at your post of 20/10/2017 on the thread above, comparing the map of St Floris to that of Le Gheer in the OP, the styles are strikingly similar (though not 100% identical). The areas are on adjacent sheets, so perhaps by the same Field Survey Company. I wonder if they are by the same draughtsman, or at least in the 'house style' of close colleagues? Both copied below for comparison.

 

IMG_5038.JPG

IMG_5178.PNG

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Neill Gilhooley

Certainly 'house style' seems strong. I don't know nearly enough on the subject, and they must be close to the army boundary, but from May 1918 LLT has 1st Field Survey Bn in First Army and 4th FS Bn in Second Army. Equally they may have been very consistent across the entire front. 

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Howard

Art meets military sketching:-

 

Howard

plate02.jpg

Edited by Howard

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JohnC

A change of scene now, to the Italian Front. This map is centred on San Luca, between Bassano and Asiago (centre bottom on the 4th photo). It's in ink on tracing paper, scale of 1:5,000, and judging by the contours has been traced from a print. It carries the stamp of the Field Engineering Command, Altopiani (plateau) region, Construction Supervision of 2nd Zone, 5th Section.

It shows a defensive line (line of xxxxx's) running from the river valley in the west (just south of the village of Laverda), up the slope of hill 466, then turning north to take in the ridge of San Luca as a salient before bending SE along the hill's flank. San Luca looks to be defended by at least 17 MGs (I assume) facing generally NW. I don't know the significance of the red and green colour coding.

There's no date on the map. This area wasn't overrun by the Austro-Hungarians during the Battle of Asiago in May-June 1916, nor I think following Caporetto in October 1917. It was close to the front on both occasions so I'm guessing that the line here was some sort of reserve position from between those dates.

I really don't know much about this theatre and would be very grateful if any readers could bring some insights to bear on what was occuring around San Luca.

John

IMG_5256.JPG

IMG_5257.JPG

IMG_5258.JPG

IMG_5260.JPG

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Howard

Really nice maps, the kind that I have tried to draw but not been too successful. I must try again, something to do in the winter.

 

Howard

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Howard

Here is a hand drawn map of the Cuinchy Brickstacks. Sadly it is not dated but as the stacks are shown "solid" I assume it is early. The stacks were used for observation so were heavily shelled.

 

Compare with the panoramas in this thread, e.g. in Paul's post #5 and my post #7, images of the same area.

 

Howard

 

M_020825.jpg

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