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Discrepancy between War Diary and CWGC records


David Earley
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I am used to small discrepancies between the casualties recorded in war diaries and the deaths listed by CWGC, but I am struggling to comprehend this one.

 

1099174570_1916-10-0918KRRCwardiary.png.702a760cd21385de9eabf99165229f10.png

 

The entry on the war diary (WO-95-2635-3) for the 18th Battalion (Arts & Crafts) King's Royal Rifle Corps. for 10 October 1916 (above) records Casualties - Nil. The CWGC for the same date records 45 casualties, most of whom were commemorated at Thiepval, (Their names are also recorded here.)

 

Can anyone explain the discrepancy?

 

David

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Perhaps one company had been detached and was temporarily with another battalion on that day? Or the officer compiling the diary simply made a mistake.

 

Ron

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It might be worth looking at what the other documents say for individuals.

 

I am now convinced that CWGC have the wrong date for a sergeant whom I am researching. In fact two other dates appear in other documents and it is possible to see how the date could have been badly copied between documents at the time. In the war diary there are clearly no casualties on the day given by CWGC but the following day " a sergeant of ... company".

 

Having said that, it seems rather unlikely that the same mistake could have been made for 45 men.

Have you looked to see if there is a date on which there were 45 casualties?

RM

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Does the WD give  number of casulties daily. weekly or at end of trench tour? did it also give numbers for those missing? If they are on Thiepval their bodies were not found.

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Having just sampled around a quarter of the names that are recorded by CWGC as having died on that day I note that 10 are buried at Warlencourt (all concentrations), 1 at Etaples (DoW), 1 at AIF Burial Grounds, Flers (concentrated) and 1 at Heilly Station (DoW).  The Register of Soldiers Effects records all the names sampled as having died between the 3rd and 10th October 1916 with the exception of 1 who is recorded as having died of wounds on the 10th and now buried at Heilly Station. 

Would suggest going back through the WD and also the brigade WD as this may hold some more clues.

 

J

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‘Battalions on the Somme’ Westlake records the battalion relieving the NZRB in Turk Lane on 3rd October, attack on Gird Trench on the 7th and withdrew to Flers Trench on the 9th

 

J

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Thanks everyone for your input. The summary posted above is for the previous week. That for the week ended  14 October reports Zero deaths and 7 injuries (as per the diary for 9 October)

For the period from 1 October to 7 October, CWGC only records 18 men (& 3 officers : Cook, Christmas & Ridgway) killed, whereas the war diary reports 38 men killed, so there must have been some overlap between the two weeks.

All very peculiar!

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The service record of C/7759 Harry Cope follows Soldiers Effects as noted above and has a report dated 26th November (26.XI) on Army Form B.103 'wounded in action 3.10.16 to 10.10.16', then a further entry "Wounded and Missing 3.10.16  to 10.10.16."

 

A similar entry for C/6953 Johnson this time dated 14.10.16. shows "Killed in Action 3.10.16 to 10.10.16"

 

I imagine CWGC took the last date, which is unusual as many entries around 21 March 1918 show 'between' dates.

Either that or the records office simply told CWGC 10th October.

 

Ken

 

 

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3 hours ago, David Earley said:

Thanks everyone for your input. The summary posted above is for the previous week. That for the week ended  14 October reports Zero deaths and 7 injuries (as per the diary for 9 October)

For the period from 1 October to 7 October, CWGC only records 18 men (& 3 officers : Cook, Christmas & Ridgway) killed, whereas the war diary reports 38 men killed, so there must have been some overlap between the two weeks.

All very peculiar!

 

On Saturday 07 October the 18th KRRC went into action carrying out an attack, with the 15th Hants and 11th RWK's, during which the 18th KRRC would have suffered a number of killed, wounded and missing.

 

15th Bn Hampshire deaths - 07 October:

https://www.cwgc.org/find/find-war-dead/results?regiment=Hampshire%2BRegiment&war=1&unit=15th%2BBn.&exactDate=07-10-1916

 

11th Bn Queens Own (Royal West Kent Regiment) - 07 October:

https://www.cwgc.org/find/find-war-dead/results?regiment=Queen%27s%2BOwn%2B(Royal%2BWest%2BKent%2BRegiment)&war=1&unit=11th%2BBn.&exactDate=07-10-1916

 

Given the large number of casualties suffered by the 15th Hants and 11th RWK's on that day it is likely that many of the 18th KRRC deaths for Other Ranks recorded as 10 October by CWGC actually occurred on 07 October.

 

JP

 

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1.  15/Hants - 07 October:

Hants.jpg.eb4c55b9463dea06c5ed4c25de0fb51a.jpg

 

2.  11/RWK - 07 October:

RWK.jpg.da11555e5519b02923d54a12181fbc6a.jpg

 

3.  18/KRRC Other Ranks - 10 October: 

https://www.cwgc.org/find/find-war-dead/results?regiment=King%27s%2BRoyal%2BRifle%2BCorps&war=1&unit=18th%2BBn.&exactDate=10-10-1916

KRRC.jpg.11ed9b5d71215251392c6f32e7d8ef96.jpg

 

18/KRRC Officers - 07 October, Thiepval Memorial:

2/Lt ECR Christmas

2/Lt JH Laycock

2/Lt W Ridgway

 

 

JP

 

 

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