Territorial Forces and Conscription in 1916

[MParckar]

Hi

 

I am researching my GGF who was a Private in the 1/8th Middlesex Regiment.  He arrived in France on 9th March 1915 and was discharged as a 'time-expired' soldier in March 1916.

 

In August 1916, he is reported in the local newspaper as re-enlisting with the same TF regiment, with a couple of other time-expired pals.

 

My question is - due to the introduction of Conscription in 1916, did my GGF willingly volunteer or were time-expired men forced to re-enlist?  He was 26 years old at the time, married, with a family.

 

His TF regiment suffered heavy losses in July 1916 at the Battle of the Somme, and I am wondering if this inspired him to re-enlist?  Or possibly he was inspired by the 8th Mx Battalion once again assuming independence as a Territorial Unit on the 2nd August (having spent over a year being amalgamated with the 1/7th due to lack of strength)?

 

Many thanks

 

Mandie

Edited 4 September , 2019 by MParckar

[Terry_Reeves]

Mandie

 

Yes, they could and were conscripted. Exactly that happened to Arthur Hutt VC, of 7th Battalion, Royal Warwickshire Regiment. He was discharged in 1915, conscripted in 1916 and was awarded his VC the following year serving with his original regiment.

 

TR

 

[MParckar]

5 minutes ago, Terry_Reeves said:

Mandie

 

Yes, they could and were conscripted. Exactly that happened to Arthur Hutt VC, of 7th Battalion, Royal Warwickshire Regiment. He was discharged in 1915, conscripted in 1916 and was awarded his VC the following year serving with his original regiment.

 

TR

 

Terry, was Arthur conscripted as soon as conscription was made compulsory?  I note that my GGF arrived back home in March 1916 (as time expired) when conscription was active, but it wasn't until 5 months later did he re-enlist.  

[Terry_Reeves]

Mandie

 

I do not know the date of Arthur's return to the army I'm afraid.

 

TR

[PRC]

1 hour ago, MParckar said:

In August 1916, he is reported in the local newspaper as re-enlisting with the same TF regiment, with a couple of other time-expired pals.

 

From my experience of local press reporting that shouldn't be taken as a precise date or period for when he re-enlisted. Did he retain the same service number or did it change - it it's the latter then may give a clue as to when he was conscripted.

 

Similarly for another project I'm looking at the newspapers for the summer of 1916 and noticed in passing that the status of these time-expired men seemed to have been causing local tribunarals some difficulty as to the interpretation of the rules, with one case, (admittedly an obscure set of circumstances) being referred to the courts for a legal interpretation. The delay, if any, in him being conscripted may have been caused by the tribunaral seeking clarification.

 

Men could and did appeal the decision to conscript. Presumably if he came out he had a job to return to or a business to run, so he may have been granted a deferment so that a replacement can be recruited and trained or the business sold \ transferred.

 

Additionally, if he came out in March 1916 he would have missed the original requirement to register. I've no doubt that a condition of his discharge was that he had to register, but it may simply have taken the administrative machine a while to catch up.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[MParckar]

36 minutes ago, PRC said:

 

From my experience of local press reporting that shouldn't be taken as a precise date or period for when he re-enlisted. Did he retain the same service number or did it change - it it's the latter then may give a clue as to when he was conscripted.

 

Similarly for another project I'm looking at the newspapers for the summer of 1916 and noticed in passing that the status of these time-expired men seemed to have been causing local tribunarals some difficulty as to the interpretation of the rules, with one case, (admittedly an obscure set of circumstances) being referred to the courts for a legal interpretation. The delay, if any, in him being conscripted may have been caused by the tribunaral seeking clarification.

 

Men could and did appeal the decision to conscript. Presumably if he came out he had a job to return to or a business to run, so he may have been granted a deferment so that a replacement can be recruited and trained or the business sold \ transferred.

 

Additionally, if he came out in March 1916 he would have missed the original requirement to register. I've no doubt that a condition of his discharge was that he had to register, but it may simply have taken the administrative machine a while to catch up.

 

Cheers,

Peter

Hi Peter, that is very useful.  

 

He does indeed have 2 service numbers. Wound incurred during TF voluntary service state one number and the wounds incurred post re-enlisting in 1916, state another number.

I think you are correct with the time delay and clarification needed.  

I have just read the original Military Service Act of January 1916, which states time-expired TF soldiers are exempt from conscription.  However, an amendment to this Act in late May 1916, repeals this exemption.  The delay between end of May and enlisting again in early August (as per his medal card), may purely be interpretation of these rules etc...

[Open Bolt]

I've certainly seen time-expired Territorials who re-attested voluntarily, but this was probably before conscription came in. Also, it might be the change of number was just TF re-numbering in 1917 (six-digit), rather than a new issue.

[PRC]

4 hours ago, MParckar said:

He does indeed have 2 service numbers. Wound incurred during TF voluntary service state one number and the wounds incurred post re-enlisting in 1916, state another number.

 

Perhaps name and service number might draw out specifics.

 

I may have entirely misunderstood what I've read previously but my understanding is that post MSA it wasn't possible to enlist in the Territorial Force as such - the T's & C's were now the same for everyone.

 

If that is correct then potentially the TF renumbering at the start of 1917 shouldn't apply - and it if did it would be good to check out men with nearby service numbers to see how they were renumbered. The MiC's and the Service Medal Rolls they reflect don't always capture all the service number changes depending on how the relevant records office, (and sometimes even individual clerks), chose to intepret the rules at the time post war when those documents were being created.

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

[ss002d6252]

Under the MSA part 2 time-expired men were conscripted but I believe there was some consideration given to previous rank etc. They would be taken back in on standard war time enlistment terms, not TF terms.

 

They would be given a new service number as they had a break in service. Whether or not a man would be given a new number in the TF range was a complicated issue.

 

Craig

[John(txic)]

ISTR there was a £20 bonus payable if you stayed in; no doubt many thought a few weeks at home was worth more than money in the pocket.

 

[Ken Lees]

If I remember correctly, the bonus was for those who re-enlisted (or chose to stay in). In that case, a period of leave was granted and then they continued to serve in their original unit. The threat, to encourage this noble re-signing, was that if they didn't they were liable to conscription and could be posted to any regiment/unit.

[ss002d6252]

3 hours ago, John(txic) said:

ISTR there was a £20 bonus payable if you stayed in; no doubt many thought a few weeks at home was worth more than money in the pocket.

 

There was a bonus and some extra leave. I think it was £15 rather than £20 though.

 

Craig

[ss002d6252]

17 minutes ago, Ken Lees said:

If I remember correctly, the bonus was for those who re-enlisted (or chose to stay in). In that case, a period of leave was granted and then they continued to serve in their original unit. The threat, to encourage this noble re-signing, was that if they didn't they were liable to conscription and could be posted to any regiment/unit.

 

There is a very good series of newspaper articles in the Welsh papers about the Brecknocks in India. They were berated by a general about wanting to be released as time expired and the conscription issue was heavily pushed.

 

Craig