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Remembered Today:

Northumberland Fusilier TF Machine gunners.


Peterhastie

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Anymore info on the image below?

As can be seen they all look like TF NF's, except the sergeant who looks like Yorkshire regiment.

The gunner, on the machine gun on the right, could have the surname Brierly or Bower.

One man, second row far right, appears to have an Imperial Service Badge.

Any dates, names or places please.

MG course N.Fusiliers Durham ww one. Bower perhaps on  Vickers MG.jpg

Edited by Peterhastie
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Is there a photographers mark on the reverse of the postcard?

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The guns are Vickers, so the photo was probably taken before these were withdrawn from battalions in early 1915. My guess would be a TF battalion of the NF, perhaps at camp just before the war.

 

Ron

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2 hours ago, Ron Clifton said:

The guns are Vickers, so the photo was probably taken before these were withdrawn from battalions in early 1915. My guess would be a TF battalion of the NF, perhaps at camp just before the war.

 

Ron

 

The viewers right gun is indeed a Vickers, the left however is a Lewis with an adaptor to allow it to be fitted to the standard MkIV tripod as commonly used with the Vickers/Maxim. The adaptor was introduced with List of Changes 17484, 15th October 1915 (source - Easterly, 1998, 465) and relatively short lived as the Lewis was completely unsuited for this style of shooting. So the picture can probably be dated quite accurately to late 1915/early 1916.

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Thank you Andrew. I did wonder about the lack of "fluting" on the left-hand gun!

 

Now that the battalion numbers are clearer in the enlarged image I would agree that the men are probably grouped from all four TF battalions of the NF.

 

Ron

 

 

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18 hours ago, Graham Stewart said:

Is there a photographers mark on the reverse of the postcard?

 

Found a "Speed Photo Co." at 124 Ocean road, South Shields, in the 1914 directory for Co. Durham.

 

I see the 63rd (2nd) Northumbrian Division was responsible for  coastal defences of the sector Seaham Harbour – Sunderland – Newcastle in 1915.

 

Is there any correlation between TF NF Machine Gunners numbers and subsequent MGC numbers

 

 

Captureb.PNG

Edited by Peterhastie
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The Yorkshire Regiment cap badge on the chip seated to the left of the officer is a sergeant machine gun instructor. He’s wearing his skill-at-arms badge above his sergeants stripes.

 

The points on the guns have already been raised but they do indicate mid 1915. 

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13 hours ago, Richard Fisher said:

The Yorkshire Regiment cap badge on the chip seated to the left of the officer is a sergeant machine gun instructor. He’s wearing his skill-at-arms badge above his sergeants stripes.

 

The points on the guns have already been raised but they do indicate mid 1915. 

A small detail: The MG wreath worn above chevrons is in fact a badge of appointment. Strictly speaking the sergeant is an Assistant Instructor ..... right across the army at that time Instructors [of anything, like signalling] were commissioned officers. NCOs were "assistants". The NCOs probably knew more anyway.

Worn lower left it is indeed a skill at arms badge.

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All of the second line T.F. Battalions were at Swalwell Camp, near Newcastle until November 1915 with 188th Bde, when they moved to York. So in my honest opinion they're second line T.F. still in the Newcastle area and handy for the South Shields photographer.

Edited by Graham Stewart
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4 minutes ago, Graham Stewart said:

All of the second line T.F. Battalions were at Swalwell Camp, near Newcastle until November 1915 with 188th Bde, when they moved to York. So in my honest opinion they're second line T.F. still in the Newcastle area and handy for the South Shields photographer.

Do you happen to know where in Swalwell the camp was Graham?

 

Craig

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18 hours ago, ss002d6252 said:

Do you happen to know where in Swalwell the camp was Graham?

 

Craig

To be honest Craig, I don't have a clue where it was located in the Swalwell area at all. Local newpapers for the period may give a location or even period maps, but it's difficult to say where you would find an exact reference.

Ironically when I moved into the Mowden area of Darlington, we used to walk our dog down the nearby beck and through some farm fields and on one particlular walk I noted that one of the two large stone gate pillars had a W.D. arrow upon it and I wondered why. Anyway during some research through local period newspapers I discovered that the same fields had been used by local Yeomanry Regiments for their summer camps. So perhaps Swalwell camp may have been farmers fields for Yeomanry camps.

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35 minutes ago, Graham Stewart said:

To be honest Craig, I don't have a clue where it was located in the Swalwell area at all. Local newpapers for the period may give a location or even period maps, but it's difficult to say where you would find an exact reference.

Ironically when I moved into the Mowden area of Darlington, we used to walk our dog down the nearby beck and through some farm fields and on one particlular walk I noted that one of the two large stone gate pillars had a W.D. arrow upon it and I wondered why. Anyway during some research through local period newspapers I discovered that the same fields had been used by local Yeomanry Regiments for their summer camps. So perhaps Swalwell camp may have been farmers fields for Yeomanry camps.

Thanks Graham, worth a shot ! There's a good few camps around here in Gateshead that I've become aware of but been unable to actually tie down.


Craig

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On 04/09/2019 at 08:26, Graham Stewart said:

Is there a photographers mark on the reverse of the postcard?

From Les Robertson , this picture is from my Grandads album & may include one of his Brothers or brother in Laws , hence Bower or Brierly.

This picture was lost for nearly 50 years!

I am very pleased at the info you have all contributed

Thanks for your interest in this picture.

I hope any of the soldiers can be identified.

by the way I think the building in the background could be either a school or a chapel.

My guess is a school , I have seen similar school buildings from that period.

My own school (Rockliffe Junior in Whitley Bay) was used by the Army in WW1.

 

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