2nd Battalion Royal Dublin Fusiliers 26th and 27th August 1914

[GJW]

I am trying to detail the exact movements of the above on these dates. I have the war diary and the 10th Brigade diaries. I am hoping that someone on here might have some more. I am trying to determine where they saw action on these dates. It does not appear they actually were involved in the battle of Le Cateau on the 26th? Is this correct? As were in the line around Haucourt.

 

Anything will help unravel this for me.

 

Cheers,

 

Gerard

[stiletto_33853]

There is an account in CAB45/197 on the 2nd Royal Dublin Fusiliers on the 26th/27th from Lieut. F. C. S. Macky & Lieut. C. H. West, both stipulate no action apart from being on the receiving end of some shellfire.

 

Andy

Edited 1 September , 2019 by stiletto_33853

[GJW]

Agreed Andy - have that report. Thank you for getting back to me. Have a family relative from that unit - says KIA Audencourt

[Jervis]

They were in St Quentin on 26th/27th August, on the verge of surrendering to the Germans. 

https://www.dublin-fusiliers.com/courts-martial/courts-martial-various/courts-martial-various.html

 

[GJW]

Thank you Jervis. Two companies were left in the line at Ligny. Colonel Mainwaring did retire with some elements to St. Q. I believe my relative was not with him. Unfortunately I do not know what company he served with. Again thank you

 

gerard

[Jervis]

Oh. I wasn’t aware it wasn’t the complete Battalion in St Q. I recall reading an account of this period in Patrick Gogarty’s book. If you can dig it out from somewhere it might help you.

[GJW]

A captain Shewan led the remaining companies in the line. He and 5 other RDF officers were taken POW at Clary - all wounded. I think another reason why Mainwaring was discredited.

Cannot be sure on that though.

[stiletto_33853]

In the 4th Div HQ Diary Apps there is a report of the actions of the 26th going into where the parts of the 10th Brigade were and the action they took part in, including sketches.

 

Andy

[helpjpl]

5 hours ago, GJW said:

Thank you Jervis. Two companies were left in the line at Ligny. Colonel Mainwaring did retire with some elements to St. Q. I believe my relative was not with him. Unfortunately I do not know what company he served with. Again thank you

 

 

The following newspaper articles may be of interest. 

a letter in which Captain West says that he has his possession identity discs belonging 10134 F. Walsh, 10149 W. Whelan ....... :

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/search/irish-newspapers?date=1915-07-01&date_offsetdate=1915-07-31&lastname=10149&exactnames=true&exactkeywords=false

 

According to PA 9777, Captain Cecil Hartley L'Estrange West was taken POW on 27 August 1914 at Clery:

https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/3739589/3/2/

 

Edit.  10134 F P Walsh (Died of Wounds):

https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/324390/walsh,-francis-patrick/

 

JP

 

 

Edited 2 September , 2019 by helpjpl
CWGC link

[GJW]

Thank you so much JP.  It does look like he was killed at Clary. It was what I thought. And maybe H company as per F P Walsh. Unfortunately all the other names did not give the company.

 

I am in your debt!

 

Gerard

[GJW]

22 hours ago, stiletto_33853 said:

In the 4th Div HQ Diary Apps there is a report of the actions of the 26th going into where the parts of the 10th Brigade were and the action they took part in, including sketches.

 

Andy

 

Thank you Andy. I will take a look

[helpjpl]

3 hours ago, GJW said:

Thank you so much JP.  It does look like he was killed at Clary. It was what I thought. And maybe H company as per F P Walsh. 

 

 

1.  Or maybe 'A' or 'D' company.  See Corporal's Thrilling Story in #8  here: 

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/274401-battle-of-clary-morning-of-27th-august-1914/?tab=comments#comment-2791907

"Just as the day was breaking of the morning of the 27th we got into a village called Ligny-En-Cambresis, where the peasants fed us with bread and water. It was all there was to be had and we were very glad to get it. We were two companies - "A" and "D" - of the Dublin at this time and about 30 or 40 stragglers from other regiments who had got separated from their fellows during the night. We were all in high spirits. Just at daylight we marched out of this village, and as we were marching along the road we were attacked on our left and front. It appeared that we had run into an ambush laid for us. The Germans entirely outnumbered us and their rifle fire was terrific though we hadn't many killed at the begin. I remember Lieut. Dobbs shouting in the Din "COME ON, BOYS, let us show them what we can do, although they have caught us." We were firing for all we were worth at this time and two men on my left were killed and an officer - Lieut. West* - was wounded in the hand. We were surrounded and everybody realised that we had been trapped. It seemed to be the case of our surrendering, but this we did not do. There was then nothing left but to make a dash for it back in the teeth of their shells, and the officers determined to adopt this course than surrender. The only way it could be done was by dashing in small parties. I was with Lieut. Mackey's party, and of our little contingent only our leader another Lance Corporal and myself escaped. We had to cover about 700 yards under a perfect rain of bullets, and those of us who escaped were saved by a beetroot field." 

*Captain West was wounded below the left elbow and the bullet came out above the elbow without touching the bone.

 

2.  Map showing

• Ligny - 'A' and 'D' companies arrived there at daybreak on the 27th
• Montigny - where 10134 F P Walsh is buried
• Clary - where Captain C H L'E West was captured
• Audencourt is marked with red symbol
• 

 

3.  Did you manage to access Captain West's letter? It is also in The British Newspaper Archive.

 

JP

Edited 3 September , 2019 by helpjpl

[GJW]

Thanks JP. Some silly questions coming up...

 

Where do I find Corporal Thrillings account?

 

I signed up to the British Newspaper Archive but like a needle in a haystack just yet - hate trying to navigate unfamiliar sites...

 

g

[GJW]

Hi HP,

 

Found Thrilling account. Still no joy with West letter though.

 

Gerard

[GJW]

Do you know what publication it was in?

[helpjpl]

34 minutes ago, GJW said:

Do you know what publication it was in?

 

1.  See link in #9. The dates and publications are:

01 July 1915 - Irish Times - Dublin, Dublin, Republic of Ireland

02 July 1915 - Belfast News-Letter - Belfast, Antrim, Northern Ireland

02 July 1915 - Dublin Daily Express - Dublin, Dublin, Republic of Ireland

 

2.  I'm not used to the British Newspaper Archive (don't have a subscription) but I found the article about Cpt West's letter in the Belfast News-Letter.

Advanced Search:

 

Result:

 

Here's the link:

https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/search/results/1915-07-01/1915-07-02?basicsearch="10149 w. whelan"&phrasesearch=10149 w. whelan&retrievecountrycounts=false&sortorder=score

 

JP

Edited 3 September , 2019 by helpjpl
to add link

[helpjpl]

" I remember Lieut. Dobbs shouting in the Din "COME ON, BOYS, let us show them what we can do, although they have caught us." We were firing for all we were worth at this time and two men on my left were killed and an officer - Lieut. West - was wounded in the hand."

 

Lt/Cpt John Fritz Kivas Dobbs was taken POW at Clary on 27 August:

https://www.morganfourman.com/articles/john-fritz-kivas-dobbs/

and

https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/community/2745

 

JP

[GJW]

Thank you for patience with me JP and thank you for unlocking so much about what happened that day.

 

Gerard

[helpjpl]

Re #16:

 

Did you find the article in the Belfast-News Letter?

 

JP

[GJW]

Yes indeed JP. Am trying to track down an actual copy of the letter. No joy though.

 

Gerard

[Jervis]

Hi Gerard

 

If you have not already read it. You may find this journal from the RDFA Blue Cap Volume 19 useful as it described the above events from a number of sources. 
 

Jervis

[GJW]

Thank you Jervis. I already have this and is the only decent document I can find on the topic. Thank you for remembering me..

 

Gerard