2 soldiers not on CWGC database

[temptage]

I have been looking through local Church lists of men from the Parish who died and are in their Book of Remembrance. These two men are not on any databases as far as I can see.

 

1015 Private Edward Briggs

10th Lincolnshire Regiment

Age 36

Date of Discharge - 19-06-1917 due to sickness (according to the KR listing on his Medal Rolls Index Card)

Date of death - 19-08-1918

 

8935 Private Uriah Drant

Royal Defence Corps

Aged 30

Date of Discharge - 09-08-1916 due to Illness or disability (according to the KR listing on his Medal Rolls Index Card)

Date of death - 02-07-1918

 

Can anybody else find out anything more about either of these two men, as I have a feeling that at least one of them may be a candidate for the IFCP.

 

[johnboy]

Does the fact that they died after being discharged make a difference? If they died at home , the family probably arranged the burial.There should be burial records for them some where

[Terence Munson]

Hi, It has been some time since I did this type of research but I think there is a good chance that their service

records will have survived the WW2 bombing due to their sickness, ie held in a different location. I'll see what I can find

but no doubt someone will get there first.

Terry

[Chef_Hendrix]

1 hour ago, temptage said:

 

8935 Private Uriah Drant

Royal Defence Corps

Aged 30

Date of Discharge - 09-08-1916 due to Illness or disability (according to the KR listing on his Medal Rolls Index Card)

Date of death - 02-07-1918

 

 

 

 

The service record still exists for Uriah and it contains a fair few comments on his medical history. It would appear he was previously in the Navy in 1914 but "was discharged at once" and he suffered from varicose veins in his legs. He spent a year in the army, last unit being the Royal Defence Corps with all the time spent at "Home"

 

It looks like he was offered an operation but refused it.

Edited 1 September , 2019 by Chef_Hendrix

[temptage]

38 minutes ago, johnboy said:

Does the fact that they died after being discharged make a difference? If they died at home , the family probably arranged the burial.There should be burial records for them some where

 

Not specifically but if their final demise can be attributed to their War Service then that's the details we are looking for. 

[Chef_Hendrix]

 

20 minutes ago, temptage said:

 

Not specifically but if their final demise can be attributed to their War Service then that's the details we are looking for. 

Looking at Uriah, i don't think that's the case with him. It would appear he had his illness prior to joining the Navy. It has origin of disability as 1915, but that is crossed through and replaced with 1907. It is written that standing on guard for 6 hours aggravates the condition and they "Throb" 

 

It has written "..not result of but aggravated by ordinary military service" and "permanent unless operation performed" and "states he will be able to do his former work (ships cook) quite well"

 

Saying that i am no medical expert!

Edited 1 September , 2019 by Chef_Hendrix

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

The cause of death (COD) has to be the same as what he was discharged with. It's very very unusual for people to die as a result of VVs.

Only getting a death certificate can confirm the COD unless the service or pension record confirms that the COD was attributable.

[temptage]

I have found both of their burial locations.

 

They are both buried in Grimsby Scartho Road Cemetery.

 

Edward Briggs is buried in plot 43. C. 4 which is in the WW1 WarGraves plot. He was listed as living at 4 Victor Yard, Victor Street, Grimsby and occupation was fish labourer.

 

Uriah Drant is buried in plot 49. D. 26. He was living at 15 Tunnard Street, Grimsby and occupation was Labourer. I dont know if there is anything linking the two but his 9 year old daughter, Sarah Elizabeth, died just 6 days after him and is buried in the same grave.

 

 

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

36 minutes ago, Chef_Hendrix said:

It has written "..not result of but aggravated by ordinary military service" and "permanent unless operation performed" and "states he will be able to do his former work (ships cook) quite well"

That could have entitled him to a pension, but as I explained above, unless the VVs were in some way linked to his death, then he would not qualify for CWGC acceptance.

[Chef_Hendrix]

4 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

That could have entitled him to a pension, but as I explained above, unless the VVs were in some way linked to his death, then he would not qualify for CWGC acceptance.

Yes I agree. It does look like he was given a pension and he was issued with his War Badge and Certificate, which he signed for on 13 Mar 1918.

[PaulC78]

Is anyone able to view the pension card for Briggs on Fold3? Looks like it says "pthisis aggravated".

 

As far as I can tell, Drant's card just says "discharged".

[charlie962]

2 hours ago, PaulC78 said:

pension card for Briggs on Fold3? Looks like it says "pthisis aggravated".

One of his cards (try 1075) says it was Tuberculosis Epididymitis, Attributable to Service

The other is as you say, aggravated by Active Service

[temptage]

So Briggs could be a candidate who could be put forward to the In From the Cold Project? 

[PaulC78]

On 04/12/2019 at 22:15, temptage said:

So Briggs could be a candidate who could be put forward to the In From the Cold Project? 

 

I reckon it's worth seeking out his DC. If he died from tuberculosis then he should be able to go forward.

 

 

Edited 21 December , 2019 by PaulC78

[PaulC78]

Giving this topic a bump since both men remain uncommemorated. I don't see much of a case for DRANT unless the DC makes some reference to the varicose veins, but BRIGGS still seems like he's worth a look.

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Yes agreed. The pensions people have had the information somewhere that he died of 'phthitis' which, although used interchangeably with 'tuberculosis' was more of a description of the type of decaying illness, caused by TB, declining to death. And it says it was aggravated by active service.

[temptage]

Bingo bingo bingo

 

Finally, after ordering the death certificate for Uriah Drant, which we didn't need, I finally realised my mistake and ordered the DC for Edward Briggs.....and there it is!

 

 

Also found a photo which has a 50% chance of being him as there were only 2 Briggs' who served with the 10th Lincolnshire's, Edward and George.

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

1 hour ago, temptage said:

Bingo bingo bingo

Bingo indeed.
Barn door case now.

On the other hand, the man in the photo doesn't look 36 to me. I may be wrong.

Good luck with the submision

[PaulC78]

Good stuff, hopefully this will lead to a positive outcome! Out of interest, what was the cause of death for Drant?

[temptage]

On 30/04/2023 at 23:00, PaulC78 said:

Good stuff, hopefully this will lead to a positive outcome! Out of interest, what was the cause of death for Drant?

[temptage]

On 30/04/2023 at 13:49, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

On the other hand, the man in the photo doesn't look 36 to me. I may be wrong.

I believe he signed up for the Lincolns years before the war, so the photo could have been taken when he was younger. I thought he looked far too young too, but I looked up details of George Briggs, and he was of a similar age to Edward, so its one or the other.

I have already submitted his name, with death certificate and the two pension cards added on here, but got this email straight back from Terry.

Quote

It is a bit thin as it would rely only on the pension card. Some such cases are being rejected through lack of evidence. We will look to see if there is any military evidence.

 Can you send full images rather than cropped ones. The full images help with provenance. The burial will need the original register as evidence.

PaulC78, could you, or anyone else, upload the full uncropped versions of the pension cards please, so I can submit them as requested.

 

Edited 2 May , 2023 by temptage

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

1 hour ago, temptage said:

It is a bit thin

Cause of discharge, 19/06/1917: Tuberculosis Epididymitis , Att[ributable to active service]

Cause of death, 19/08/1918: Phthisis

If you were defending such a case as an act of medical negligence, arguing that one did not lead to the other, you would fail now, and you would have failed in 1918. The case is indefensible.

[PaulC78]

I think Terry's just being cautious due to the absence of a service record and any medical reports it might have contained. Nothing is guaranteed of course, but it's certainly not a deal breaker.