Date/Purpose of this RFC Parade in Aldershot?

[Buffnut453]

Folks,

 

Trying to pin down any additional info about this photos of a parade taken in Aldershot by Wm MAT & Co.  Not sure of the date but there are some interesting details, including a bus in the background which confirms the Aldershot location based on the advertisement visible at the rear of the bus).

 

I'm wondering if it's a funeral based on the way the rifles are being carried, possible black arm bands worn by the officers at the right side of the column, and what appear to be hearses in the background.  There is a band present as well as a number of mounted personnel (at least one officer plus others with bandoliers).  RFC shoulder titles are clearly visible, hence posting this in the Air Personnel and War in the Air forum.

 

Any insights would be most welcome.  

Edited 24 August , 2019 by Buffnut453

[helpjpl]

The funeral of Samuel Franklin Cody ?:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Franklin_Cody

 

JP

 

[helpjpl]

Motor omnibus at Station Road, Aldershot:

 

JP

[Buffnut453]

6 hours ago, helpjpl said:

The funeral of Samuel Franklin Cody ?:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Franklin_Cody

 

JP

 

 

That could be the occasion, although my relative only joined up in Feb 1915 so clearly he didn't participate in the funeral. 

 

My relative had  this postcard and another similar one.  The other is labelled No.2 so likely part of a series covering the event.

 

Given Cody's fame, perhaps they were still selling off postcards of the funeral years afterwards and my relative, who was serving in the RFC, picked them out just as a souvenir.

[stripeyman]

Look down the column and you can see the black coated driver of the hearse with two other attendants behind. Also the upstairs passengers on the omnibus are standing bareheaded and looking down towards the hearse. Also according to Wicki there were thousands of people watching, not many here, and the photo on Wicki shows Scottish troops at the dead of the parade. I don't think its Cody's funeral.

Edited 25 August , 2019 by stripeyman

[helpjpl]

Please add postcard No. 2.

 

JP

[Buffnut453]

Here's postcard No.2.  Not much to go on, I'm afraid.  Just some RFC personnel marching in Aldershot.  It may be nothing to do with the No.5 image I posted earlier but I suspect they are, in fact, related.

 

 

[Buffnut453]

Out of interest, what's the official term for the rifle drill displayed in the first image where the RFC soldiers are carrying the rifle butt forward?  My brain is tingling 'cos it thinks it knows the term but it simply can't dredge it out of seldom-used memory banks.  

[squirrel]

Arms reversed.

[Buffnut453]

27 minutes ago, squirrel said:

Arms reversed.

 

Thanks Squirrel.  That's the ticket.  

 

Cheers,

Mark

[daggers]

“Re-verse...ARMS!”  

The other stance is “rest on your arms...REVERSED!”, with muzzle of rifle on toe of boot.

[nieuport11]

The second photo is clearly the same location - note the horse and cart parked up the side street on the left, and ivy covered wall

[Buffnut453]

Yep, absolutely the same location...although the uniforms, boots and puttees of the soldiers in No.2 don't look nearly as smart as those in No.5.  

[ICM - RAF Retd]

Had to do "Rest on Arms Reversed" with a sword at a Service funeral once - took the Station Warrant Officer a little time drilling it into us aircrew chaps.

[Buffnut453]

I get the feeling that the No.2 image was taken either before the funeral procession or immediately after it.  My hunch is the latter. 

 

There are vehicles behind the squad of RFC soldiers and the last few spectators are hanging around to the bitter end.  However, the soldiers themselves lack the appearance of any parade bull.  The boots are rather dirty and the uniforms a tad unkempt. 

 

Perhaps this was the clean-up squad after the funeral procession had finished?  Of course, the numbering sequence contradicts that theory because the procession image should, theoretically, be a lower number. 

 

Of course none of this helps determine whether these photos were taken at Samuel Cody's funeral or some other event.

[hmsk212]

My take is that image no 5 is the front of the funeral and image no 2 is the tail end of the funeral. Look at the vehicles in the distance of no 5 that are behind the horse drawn hearse and they seem to be the same ones at the back of image no 2. The line up of soldiers on the road junction to the left plus the cart all seem to be the same as well.

 

Steve

[Buffnut453]

On ‎25‎/‎08‎/‎2019 at 09:51, stripeyman said:

Look down the column and you can see the black coated driver of the hearse with two other attendants behind. Also the upstairs passengers on the omnibus are standing bareheaded and looking down towards the hearse. Also according to Wicki there were thousands of people watching, not many here, and the photo on Wicki shows Scottish troops at the dead of the parade. I don't think its Cody's funeral.

 

There's at least one other (alas, rather poor quality) photo showing RFC personnel at Cody's funeral:

 

 

According to the description on an old Wikipedia page (yes...I know Wiki isn't the most reliable of sources), "Cody's funeral procession. Members of the Royal Flying Corps carrying wreaths. Despite the fact that he was not in the armed forces as a sign of the respect and esteem he was held in Cody was giving a funeral with full military honours, his coffin being borne on a gun carriage that was part of a 1/2 mile long procession, before being buried at the military cemetery in Aldershot. It is thought that every battalion based at Aldershot was represented at the funeral, along with virtually the entire compliment of the RFC. The whole of the 2 1/2 mile funeral route was lined with crowds, with around 100,000 people attending. Hundreds of telegraphs of commiseration were sent to Lela Cody including ones from King and Queen and the Secretary of State for War. Several hundred floral tributes were laid at his grave with many coming from members of the public who had never met Cody along with those from the many friends he had made during his various careers."

 

It looks increasingly likely that these 2 photos do, in fact, relate to the Cody funeral.  That still leaves the question of why my relative, who joined up on 4 Feb 1915, had them in his possession.  It's possible he served in the Aldershot area although there's nothing in his service record to confirm that.

[hmsk212]

Looking at a no 5 again it would appear that there is a possibility that the mounted soldiers are pulling a flag covered coffin on a gun carriage with an escort to the side including at least one officer, and the men in black top hats that are behind this may then have the main mourners aboard their carriages.

 

Steve

[hmsk212]

Me again, sorry about this.

 

I do not believe that this is Samuels Cody's funeral there are too many differences. I do, however, believe that this may be the funeral of Frank Goodden killed 28 Jan 1917 funeral procession held Aldershot 1st February 1917.

 

https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1917/1917 - 0127.PDF

 

Steve

Edited 27 August , 2019 by hmsk212

[helpjpl]

34 minutes ago, hmsk212 said:

Me again, sorry about this.

 

I do not believe that this is Samuels Cody's funeral there are too many differences. I do, however, believe that this may be the funeral of Frank Goodden killed 28 Jan 1917 funeral procession held Aldershot 1st February 1917.

 

https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1917/1917 - 0127.PDF

 

 

There wouldn't have been leaves on the trees at the beginning of February. Flight magazine reports that there was drifting snow. This doesn't tally with Buffnut's 2 postcards which show women and children in summer clothes or the photo he posted in #17 which shows men in straw boaters.

 

JP

[Buffnut453]

Good point about the trees and general tenor of the weather conditions.  Certainly not a February funeral.

 

There's definitely a gun carriage draped with the Union Flag.  Also, the band is definitely NOT RFC.  Presumably some expert on here might be able to identify the regiment.

 

Edited 27 August , 2019 by Buffnut453

[helpjpl]

The postcards were produced to sell and make money.  Would the general public buy postcards of a funeral procession if the deceased wasn't famous ?

 

I don't see any likely candidates in this list of RFC personnel buried at Aldershot Military Cemetery during WW1:

https://www.cwgc.org/find/find-war-dead/results?regiment=Royal%2bFlying%2bCorps&cemetery=Aldershot%2bMilitary%2bCemetery&war=1&csort=dateofdeath&tab=wardead&casualtypagenumber=1

 

I don't see any likely candidates in this list of RAF personnel buried at AMC during WW1:

https://www.cwgc.org/find/find-war-dead/results?regiment=Royal%2BAir%2BForce&cemetery=Aldershot%2BMilitary%2BCemetery&war=1

 

 

More info about Cody's funeral:

Flight magazine 16 August 1913.

Page 905:

https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1913/1913 - 0879.html

Page 906:

https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1913/1913 - 0880.html

 

British Pathe:

https://www.britishpathe.com/video/VLVA1AUY4AZNHWUVI86I7O4DVO1HY-FUNERAL-OF-AVIATOR-COLONEL-CODY/query/Cody

Edit: I can see 3 carriages driven by men in top hats as per your postcard in #1. However, not the same unifomed chaps on the horses pulling the gun cattiage with the coffin.

 

JP

Edited 27 August , 2019 by helpjpl
comments on british pathe film

[Buffnut453]

Based on the British Pathe footage, we can discount Cody's funeral.  The gun carriage crew at Cody's funeral wore dress uniform while the photos I provided show them in standard khaki uniform. 

 

Back to the drawing board.  I'll take a look at those other military funerals to see if there are any other possible candidates.

[Sepoy]

The postcards show the Funeral procession heading south along the Queen's Avenue (it's current name) from the North Camp, Farnborough end. This would be on the route to the Aldershot Military Cemetery from the Royal Aircraft Factory (re-named the Royal Aircraft Establishment in 1918). I just wonder if this is the Funeral of one of the Test Pilots killed at the airfield.
If you would like, I can post the postcard on the local Farnborough (Hants) Nostalgia Facebook group to discover if anyone can reveal any more information.

Sepoy

 

[Buffnut453]

15 hours ago, Sepoy said:

The postcards show the Funeral procession heading south along the Queen's Avenue (it's current name) from the North Camp, Farnborough end. This would be on the route to the Aldershot Military Cemetery from the Royal Aircraft Factory (re-named the Royal Aircraft Establishment in 1918). I just wonder if this is the Funeral of one of the Test Pilots killed at the airfield.
If you would like, I can post the postcard on the local Farnborough (Hants) Nostalgia Facebook group to discover if anyone can reveal any more information.

Sepoy

 

 

Hi Sepoy,

 

Yes, please do post the images.  Others may have additional ideas that we haven't yet considered.

 

Kind regards,
Mark