Terry Denham Posted 23 August , 2019 Share Posted 23 August , 2019 CWGC added the following casualties to the WW1 War Dead Roll today. FIRTH, John Henry Ackroyd Sergeant 801 South African Service Corps Died 10.10.18 Age 34 (illness) Commemorated: South African Book of Remembrance The following were all members of the South African Mounted Rifles and are also commemorated temporarily in the South African Book of Remembrance. ANDRIES, Slater John Native Constable 131 Died 25.10.18 (influenza) BASHULA Native Constable 128 Died 13.11.18 (influenza) CHEBELETSANE, Ponnie Native Constable 366 Died 07.10.18 (influenza) DITHOMA, Jack Native Constable 2331 Died 23.10.18 (influenza) JANSEN, Johannes Franz Constable 2104 Died 22.10.18 (illness) JOHANNES, Lasengo Mule Driver 1997 Died 22.06.18 (heart disease) MACALA, William Native Constable 2625 Died 11.01.17 Age 33 (typhoid) MALEAN, Jacob Native Constable 488 Died 30.10.18 Age 24 (influenza) MALULEKA, Charlie Native Constable 2167 Died 09.11.18 (influenza) MANKAMI Native Constable 610 Died 19.12.17 (tuberculosis) MANTAME, Albert Bertie Native Constable 384 Died 09.10.18 (tuberculosis) MAQUENA, Jan Native Constable 2263 Died 19.10.18 (influenza) MARAIS, Abraham Petrus Rifleman 5603 Died 01.02.18 Age 24 (liver abscess) MASHAGI, George Sergeant 2291 Died 03.05.18 (in accident) MATATINYANA, Samuel Native Constable 371 Died 18.11.18 (influenza) NJOMBENI, Maram Native Constable 369 Died 04.10.17 Age 30 (fell from horse) OLIPHANT, Henry Native Constable 447 Died 21.10.18 Age 24 (influenza) PRICE, Frederick Corporal 1955 Died 14.02.16 Age 43 (gastro-enteritis) QCOBONE, Appolis Native Constable 187 Died 04.08.15 Age 43 (liver disease) NOT FORGOTTEN The above were In From the Cold Project cases. (Volunteer: Terry Cawood) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 27 August , 2019 Share Posted 27 August , 2019 May They Rest In Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 27 August , 2019 Admin Share Posted 27 August , 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 27 August , 2019 Share Posted 27 August , 2019 Terry, Excuse my total ignorance, but I have long wondered how new commemorations come about and also how are the dead recognised. Equally, are these new burials of recently found remains or recognition of individuals by some means and placing names on their headstones? regards David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 2 September , 2019 Author Share Posted 2 September , 2019 David The majority of new commemorations are due to research producing names which had been left off casualty lists or whose names had not been put forward for commemoration by CWGC (mainly post-discharge cases who qualify for commemoration). Without the name appearing in the CWGC list, the casualty cannot receive their due official commemoration. So it is mainly due to a failure in the bureaucracy at some point causing a name to be missed or ignorance of the fact that the person qualified for commemoration that meant they were never added to the official Roll held by CWGC - and, in many cases, not having a grave marked with a war grave headstone or (if missing) their name on one of the official CWGC memorials. These 'found' names have their graves marked once newly accepted for commemoration and those that have unknown graves are listed on a CWGC memorial to the missing. It is nothing to do with actual remains being found - though they are frequently found and usually buried as 'Unknowns' unless some ID can be made. The names are found by diligent researchers, family members etc in records and then they have to be put through a lengthy process of acceptance with CWGC and MoD or its equivalent in the five other CWGC member countries - provided sufficient evidence can be found to prove qualification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travers61 Posted 2 September , 2019 Share Posted 2 September , 2019 David, I'm not sure how typical my experience is, but IFTC put forward a case for a soldier I found who was not listed at CWGC & a headstone was eventually erected. He was CSM Albert Pearce of the 7th Bedfordshires. The information came from a memorial book his employers published in 1917. The reason he was not on the then Imperial War Graves list was that he died in hospital of his injuries just one month after his discharge from the army in 1916. Fortunatly his death certificate confirmed this, and his service records were available on ancestry. Finding his grave was another matter & involved a friend of mine ringing round all the cemeteries around South Tottenham, but was sucessful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 2 September , 2019 Share Posted 2 September , 2019 Thank you both for your replies. I may be thick, or am missing the point, but I remain unaware how a name can be definitely linked to an unmarked individual grave without some analysis of the body. What am I missing out on? Regards David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bardess Posted 3 September , 2019 Share Posted 3 September , 2019 Burial Registers at a guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 3 September , 2019 Share Posted 3 September , 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, David Filsell said: how a name can be definitely linked to an unmarked individual grave Why do you think they are unmarked? As far as the UK is concerned, unless they ended up in an unmarked paupers grave there is likely to be a headstone. There is a danger that after a century it may well have fallen into disrepair, but the grave site itself should be identifiable from cemetery registers. A couple of years ago I came across the headstone of Bertie Thomas Ellis in the churchyard at Hempnall, Norfolk. Bertie is a casualty accepted by the CWGC and he was then shown on their website as Commemorated at the United Kingdom Book of Remembrance. The irony is that very closeby is a headstone for a WW2 casualty that is nearly inaccessible without walking past the headstone for Bertie Ellis, so anyone visiting from the CWGC would have seen it. I emailed to the CWGC requesting an amendment to their records and got a response that it had been passed to the relevant team. A follow up six months later didn't even get an acknowledgment. I then tried the Hempnall parish clerk, suggesting that while I didn't know how much was involved there could be some money in it for the parish and that as they already have CWGC maintained graves, they might have better luck with their direct contacts. After three months I got an anodyne email from the Vicar assuring me that Berties' name was read out each Remembrance Sunday. So I've given up. As of 08.45 on the 3rd September 2019 the CWGC webpage for Bertie Thomas Ellis still shows him as Commemorated at UNITED KINGDOM BOOK OF REMEMBRANCE along with 312 other individuals. https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/75452403/ellis,-bertie-thomas/ Bertie Ellis (late Coldstreams) & Percy Ellis (drowned on the Aragon). by Moominpappa06, on Flickr Of course there may be issues with establishing legally who is responsible for the plot - the CWGC need their consent in order to erect a marker. For many of those men & women buried like Bertie that could involve a ton of genealogy work, and so it could be that the case for Bertie is in legal limbo. However still can't see why the CWGC can't add something to their website with a disclaimer that they are not yet legally responsible for maintaining the gravesite. Cheers, Peter Edited 3 September , 2019 by PRC Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 3 September , 2019 Share Posted 3 September , 2019 When a UK casualty is listed by CWGC on a UK memorial, can Terry tell us what is the usual length of time that passes, from when a casualty's actual resting place is discovered and notified to CWGC, to the time the CWGC change the entry in their database? About 6 weeks ago I notified CWGC of a grave I had found. I submitted a photograph of the grave and a newspaper cutting of a report of the funeral. They said they would ask their regional team to visit the grave and check the details.The CWGC still have him commemorated on a UK memorial only. I realise 6 weeks is nothing, but in your experience, when would we be likely to see a change of the database entry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travers61 Posted 3 September , 2019 Share Posted 3 September , 2019 hi David, In the case of my soldier it was the cemeteries burial register that gave the grave row/number & a copy of this register had to be submitted by Terry before a headstone could be erected. CWGC were very diligent in not marking an incorrect plot so he ended up with a "buried near this spot" headstone, as due to poor cemetery records there was a chance that it was either of two adjacent plots. We believe that his actual unmarked plot was covered by the monument of the adjacent plot, when that was moved & rested on his plot to allow a further reinterment post WW1 & never moved back to its correct plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 3 September , 2019 Share Posted 3 September , 2019 Thank you for the additional information Regards. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 18 July , 2021 Share Posted 18 July , 2021 FIRTH, John Henry Ackroyd Sergeant 801 South African Service Corps Died 10.10.18 Age 34 (illness) Commemorated: South African Book of Remembrance Commemoration moved to Kimberley West End Cemetery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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