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seaJane

Chaplain and location ID sought

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seaJane

Posting this for an acquaintance to whom I have suggested the Museum of Army Chaplaincy at Amport House; but I'M also trying the collective wisdom of the Forum in case anyone has seen this before.

 

Someone has deciphered the lowest line of the text at the foot of the crucifix as "For King & Empire", but that may not definitely locate it in an English-speaking country.

 

Chaplain picture.jpg

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helpjpl

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seaJane

Thank you!

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seaJane
14 hours ago, helpjpl said:

Prees Heath Camp:

The person wanting the information asked me to pass on their thanks also :)

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helpjpl

Identifying Prees Heath was easy as I'd put a postcard of the camp on the forum in 2015 - distinctive telegraph poles. Then a Google search - crucifix Prees Heath - brought up Janet Johnstone's book. Perfect!

 

Having no joy on information about Chaplain Lindsay Smith. Is it a double-barrelled surname? There were a number of deaths at Prees Heath Camp and he may be mentioned in local newspaper accounts of other funerals but I don't have a subscription to fmp or British Newspaper Archive.

 

JP

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keithmroberts

I can't find him on the Museum of Army Chaplaincy cards (all I think Anglican), or in a 1923 Crockford's which I acquired for some research. If he was a Roman Catholic chaplain  taking advantage of an ecumenical arrangement at the Parish Church, then he will only be traced elsewhere. A brief attempt on the National Archive index also fails, but of course some chaplains served only in the UK and had no medal entitlement, and others did not always apply for medals.

 

Keith

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seaJane
5 hours ago, helpjpl said:

Having no joy on information about Chaplain Lindsay Smith.

The (RC) Tablet's archive used to be free access but you need a subscription now, or I'd look him up on that.

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keithfazzani

Shropshire is in the RC diocese of Shrewsbury. What records they keep I have no idea, but might be worth contacting them.

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seaJane

Thanks Keith, I'll pass that on.

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clive_hughes

Just a suggestion, I don't know if it's feasible.  The local newspaper for Prees was and still is the Whitchurch Herald, and the Camp was just outside Whitchurch.  Is it searchable on the BL newspaper collection site (I haven't got access myself)?

 

Alternatively, original copies and some microfilm versions are available at the Whitchurch Heritage Centre and Whitchurch Library respectively.  I have a feeling the set isn't quite complete. 

 

Clive 

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charlie962

I wonder whether they meant Linton smith ?

 

Rt Rev Linton Smith in this portrait shows DSO and Oxford Roll say he was Chaplain to Forces 3rd Class. Became Bishop in 1918.

I think I see a DSO or some medal ribbon in the photo ? The face would fit this portrait: I get the impression he was in France until late 1917 .

305078925_GWFLintonSmith.JPG.296ff653ac03da078a322706d84ad99b.JPG

 

OXFORD ROLL:

Forename     Rt. Rev. M. L
Surname     Smith
Rank     Chaplain To the Forces (3rd Class)
College     Hertford College, Oxford
Degree     D.D
Ship / Unit     Attached 30th Division
Commencement     9th, April 1915
War     The Great War
Type     Roll of Service
Source     Oxford University Roll of Service
Profile     RT. REV. M. L SMITH France, Belgium, 1915-17. D.S.O., Jan. 1, 1917. D. France, 1916.

 

 

Also in VC/DSO Register

 SMITH, RT. REV. M. L., D.n. (Bishop of Hereford) (DSO L.G. 1.1.17):
 b. 4.7.69 :
s. of J. A. Smith, Dean of St. David's, and
Charlotte Isabella, d. of Rev. Canon HenryLinton; m. Kathleen Dewe, d. of T. Mathews,of St. John's College, Cambridge;

one s.;one d.; educ. Repton and Hertford College, Oxford (Oxford Trial Eights, ,I 90:-91)
 T /Chaplain to the Forces, 3rd Class, A/Chaplains' Dept., 9.4.15; went to
France 7.11 .15; Battle of the Somme, July and Oct. 1916; Battle of Arras,
April, 1917; 3rd Battle of Ypres, July, 1917; Chaplain to a Brig., 1915-16 ;
~~~b~r
Chaplain, C.E., 30th Div., 1916-17; Despatches; Bishop of Hereford.

 

Charlie

 

Another photo to compare

1971656096_GWFLintonSmithPhoto3.JPG.32a6c558c8f630e2d80b57ac5f3e2b82.JPG942759202_GWFLintonSmithPhoto2.JPG.ad0e1ff0a745be3cabb08204bfc2d765.JPG

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by charlie962

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seaJane

That does look similar to me, but I'm hopeless at face matching!

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helpjpl
13 hours ago, charlie962 said:

I wonder whether they meant Linton smith ?

 

 

I don't think so. In addition to 2nd-Lt RJT Forsyth (#2), Chaplain Lindsay Smith C.F. also held a service at Tilstock Parich Church for 1130 Corporal Albert Morgan, AFC.

Page 3:

https://ww1austburialsuk.weebly.com/uploads/4/9/7/8/4978039/morgan__albert.pdf

 

The detailed accounts of Forsyth and Morgan's military funerals are held in their service files.

 

454215853_RJTForsyth-16February1918.jpg.b8c4ad96a9bb89860ffdb85a0fb32995.jpg

 

I haven't found any records on ancestry that I can link to Rev. Lindsay Smith. Perhaps he wasn't British.

 

JP

Edited by helpjpl
#2

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clive_hughes

Rev. M.L.Smith might be the man in the picture; but if he became Bishop of Hereford in 1918 he can't be the chaplain Lindsay Smith who buried the aircrew and others in Tilstock in 1919.

 

By the way, so far only Anglican chaplains have been mentioned - in a camp the size of Prees there must also aside from Roman Catholics have been at least a few United Board (nonconformist) chaplains - Wesleyan Methodists, Baptists, Congregationalists or various others including Welsh Calvinistic Methodists, and Salvation Army (though the latter would have a different uniform!).  Has someone got a June 1918 Monthly Army List which can be checked?  

 

Having said that, I agree it's a little unlikely a nonconformist would be allowed to take a service in an Anglican parish church - in those days, anyway. 

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keithmroberts

Unless he met an early end, Rev Lindsay Smith seems unlikely to have been an Anglican. He does not feature in the 1923 Crockford's, either as living, or among the obituaries. I reckon my money is on Keith Fazzani's suggestion of the Roman Catholic diocese of Shrewsbury.

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helpjpl

 

1.  Have you, or your acquaintance, considered sending a copy of the photo in #1 to the Whitchurch Heritage Centre to see if they have any information.  The Centre is only a couple of miles from Prees Heath.

Two e-mail addresses here:

http://search3.openobjects.com/kb5/shropshire/cd/view.page?record=uAk-SAu7CPA

 

2.  Brig.-Gen. George William Dowell CMG CBE is standing next to the Chaplain.

Here he is, at the back far right, in a group photo taken in early 1917 when he was just a Colonel(!):

 

Dowell.jpg.1377dcd3d5972e2ded1b06f32dbf79a7.jpg

 

JP

 

 

Edited by helpjpl
typo

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seaJane

Thanks all! @helpjpl the picture of Col Dowell is not showing, I'm afraid. 

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seaJane
12 hours ago, clive_hughes said:

but if he became Bishop of Hereford in 1918

Suffragan bishop of Warrington 1918, bishop of Hereford 1920. Still rules him out of Prees Heath.

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helpjpl
3 hours ago, seaJane said:

Thanks all! @helpjpl the picture of Col Dowell is not showing, I'm afraid. 

 

2.  Brig.-Gen. George William Dowell CMG CBE, mentioned in #2, is standing next to the Chaplain in your acquaintance's photo.

Here he is again, at the back far right, in a group photo taken in early 1917 when he was just a Colonel(!):

 

Dowell.jpg.5f94638a74a5083edfebda461d66e197.jpg

 

JP

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HarryBrook

Army Chaplains with the surname Smith and an initial 'L.' in the August 1918 Army List are:-

 

(Roman Catholic) Rev. G. Lionel Smith who was appointed Army Chaplain 4th Class on 25 May 1915

 

(Church of England) Rev. Lancelot Smith ditto on 18 February 1916, and Rev. William Lawson Smith ditto on 1 March 1918.

 

(Baptist or Methodist, etc.) Rev. Leonard James Egerton Smith ditto on 22 February 1917.

 

There were a number of Scottish church ministers mentioned in Scottish newspapers in the 1920's named Lindsay Smith, i.e D. Lindsay Smith, J. Lindsay Smith, and W. Lindsay Smith. D. Lindsay Smith was David Lindsay Smith who was born about 1900 so can be discounted.  

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